Church's message.
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before i begin, i want to make it CLEAR that i am not criticising nor comparing OR undermining ANY religions or beliefs. I start this topic just to hear your opinions out. So if you want to flame, i already made myself clear...
I am a atheist.. so i don't mind when people bring me around to visit their church and i still remain as such. I believe i have a fair knowledge on the general beliefs and tolerances of any religion....
but there is this church i went where I find the Pastor's message quite worth pondering.
In point form, he said,
1) "only through us (christianity) will only Heaven opens its gates for you"
2) "other religions are good, our's better"
3) "there are so many tragedies around the world, it is a sign for these people to accept Christ or these tragedies will always befall on them"
4) "look around this world, most of the developed countries has a christian majority population"
5) when he asked new members of congregation to accept christ... he said, "don't hesitate, for those who are scared that parents will object, don't worry, Jesus will sort it out for you"
What do you people think about such phrases?
If you agree to it, why?
Disagree, why not?
Do you think these are the right messages he should/should not spread? -
It's not the matter of should or should not.
You chose to listen and get offended or affect by it.
It's a choice, you can't stop him from what he have to say but you can make a decision to not listen.
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*raise hand*
whats a atheist?
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correct term for free-thinker i suppose?
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ya. i know. i mean.. don't you think they are somewhat controversialOriginally posted by M©+square:It's not the matter of should or should not.
You chose to listen and get offended or affect by it.
It's a choice, you can't stop him from what he have to say but you can make a decision to not listen.
people can choose not to listen it. but i am more bothered that it was actually said. -
free-thinker and atheist are not the same.Originally posted by R3SsH|n:*raise hand*
whats a atheist?
Free-thinker.... thinks freely and has no beliefs.
Atheist .... believes in no God, believe what ever that exists are explained thru science or anything that justifies its existence. -
precisely, why are you bothered?Originally posted by Ponders:ya. i know. i mean.. don't you think they are somewhat controversial
people can choose not to listen it. but i am more bothered that it was actually said.
Just ignore them because the rest of the people know they are nuts.
If you react to their message, you're nuts as well mah! -
Ya, that's why i just want to hear what you ppl think about it.Originally posted by M©+square:precisely, why are you bothered?
Just ignore them because the rest of the people know they are nuts.
If you react to their message, you're nuts as well mah!
Anyway, these are just some of what was said. There are actually more controversial statements.. just that i don't think it will be appropriate to post. -
The way i look at it, its not about offensiveness
I would rather say its more subjective as well as inaccurate
For example, how does a Christian majority relates to economic development?Dont forget that its these very people, especially Europeans, are the ones who took scientific approach rather than a spiritual one towards economics, technological and other disciplines.
Creating Industrial Revolution and Age of Enlightenment, the very developed countries are the one who push the world through so much progress that they provide basis and ammo for challenges to god and spirituality.
We know so much about tsunamis and earthquakes in Pakistan because the news cover the front page, how about Katrina and Tornado Alley? Are Brazil and Philippines, two strong Christian countries, considered developed countries? -
At least this church still care to say "Other religon are good, but our is better"..
I still remember during my 3mth in a missonary JC (about many many moons) located in southern Singapore near to World Trade Centre, we were forced to go for the church session. Initially, no problem everything were quite nice and we were quite impressed. Then one day, there was this new pastor in the session with us.
This pastor, around his early 40s, went up to the stage and give us a talk. But as the talk went on, the pastor seemed to loose his cool head and started to fan religion hatres. Upon, hearing that he openly declared "All religions, other than Chrsitianity, are satanic!", there was a uproar in the students crowds. A lot of the students stood up and walked out of the hall - included me.
Later, that afternoon, I had a talk with my senior from my Secondary. She told me that it was a common practice here to brainwash the new students. I could not tahan, and moved on to my poly education in the following Jun joint admission.
To be fair, living in singapore - multi-racial society, we should treasure the goodwill build-up with our fellow singaporean from different faiths and races. We should not jeapordise and take this good peaceful living environment in Sg for granted! We should respect other fellow singaporeans' faith. -
Where is this church by the way?Originally posted by Ponders:before i begin, i want to make it CLEAR that i am not criticising nor comparing OR undermining ANY religions or beliefs. I start this topic just to hear your opinions out. So if you want to flame, i already made myself clear...
I am a atheist.. so i don't mind when people bring me around to visit their church and i still remain as such. I believe i have a fair knowledge on the general beliefs and tolerances of any religion....
but there is this church i went where I find the Pastor's message quite worth pondering.
In point form, he said,
1) "only through us (christianity) will only Heaven opens its gates for you"
2) "other religions are good, our's better"
3) "there are so many tragedies around the world, it is a sign for these people to accept Christ or these tragedies will always befall on them"
4) "look around this world, most of the developed countries has a christian majority population"
5) when he asked new members of congregation to accept christ... he said, "don't hesitate, for those who are scared that parents will object, don't worry, Jesus will sort it out for you"
What do you people think about such phrases?
If you agree to it, why?
Disagree, why not?
Do you think these are the right messages he should/should not spread?
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i'm not telling. What i can tell you is they got no stand-alone church building.Originally posted by maggot:Where is this church by the way? -
My response.... as a Christian:
1) "only through us (christianity) will only Heaven opens its gates for you"
Only from the Christian worldview...
2) "other religions are good, our's better"
Not possible. From the Christian worldview: Christianity is the only way. The other ways lead to no where.
3) "there are so many tragedies around the world, it is a sign for these people to accept Christ or these tragedies will always befall on them"
Crap. Being a Christian does not guarantee that tragedies do not befall them. False sense of security to those who believe in this statement.
4) "look around this world, most of the developed countries has a christian majority population"
Crap. Not true, factually incorrect.
5) when he asked new members of congregation to accept christ... he said, "don't hesitate, for those who are scared that parents will object, don't worry, Jesus will sort it out for you"
Theological correct. Practically too simplistic.
Do you think these are the right messages he should/should not spread?
Evangelists/preachers/religious people make all kinds of promises, sometimes scripted, sometimes at the heat of the moment. Some attempt to work on the emotions of the individuals, some cater to the egos, some moderate their tones, some instill fear .... just techniques lah. -
I'm a Christian though but this message isn't from my church but I think i can interpret abit...
1) "only through us (christianity) will only Heaven opens its gates for you"
Every religion believes that they are the really one true religion, and the rest if just beliefs.... Sames as Christianity that people believed only thru Jesus you'll get grace redeem by the Father.
2) "other religions are good, our's better"
I wouldn't agree with this though.... Just as I personally think Christanity is not a religion. Simply religion is nothing more than like a duties and action where people perform to achieve something or believes... Christian always believe Christianity is a relationship though.
3) "there are so many tragedies around the world, it is a sign for these people to accept Christ or these tragedies will always befall on them"
Christian life is definitely not a bed of roses and bad things happened to good people too.
4) "look around this world, most of the developed countries has a christian majority population"
Well this I got to agree... 6 out of the 8 G nations are Christian predominated. 2 Out of the 20 most riches country in the world are Christian predominated or a substaintial number of Christianity presense. And the poorest nation of the world is right in the opposite.
5) when he asked new members of congregation to accept christ... he said, "don't hesitate, for those who are scared that parents will object, don't worry, Jesus will sort it out for you"
You salvation is more important than anything else and of course honouring the parents is what Christian must do. So you'll do both... -
Increase in celebrations of St Valentines Day contributes to increasing divorce rates.Originally posted by banzie:4) "look around this world, most of the developed countries has a christian majority population"
Well this I got to agree... 6 out of the 8 G nations are Christian predominated. 2 Out of the 20 most riches country in the world are Christian predominated or a substaintial number of Christianity presense. And the poorest nation of the world is right in the opposite.
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Originally posted by Chin Eng:
I tend to agree with you that these preachers are preaching in the world that they see. But i think they should do it and still give some credence to other religions.
Evangelists/preachers/religious people make all kinds of promises, sometimes scripted, sometimes at the heat of the moment. Some attempt to work on the emotions of the individuals, some cater to the egos, some moderate their tones, some instill fear .... just techniques lah.[/b]
What i mean is, if he says only christians go to heaven, then where do Popes go?
Anyway, he said another thing which kinda disturbs me.
He claims that Catholicism is a religion that cannot be taken seriously because they are worshipping a human being (Virgin Mary). Where as Christianity worship Jesus (a holy being).
He further explained that God could have chosen ANY woman to give birth to Jesus. Virgin Mary is worshipped solely because she gave birth to Jesus.
Now, that i feel is too much to offend other religions for its own causes. -
I have heard a lot lah.... including one sermon that claimed that God healed a prominent non-Christian senior public servant of cancer.Originally posted by Ponders:I tend to agree with you that these preachers are preaching in the world that they see. But i think they should do it and still give some credence to other religions.
What i mean is, if he says only christians go to heaven, then where do Popes go?
Anyway, he said another thing which kinda disturbs me.
He claims that Catholicism is a religion that cannot be taken seriously because they are worshipping a human being (Virgin Mary). Where as Christianity worship Jesus (a holy being).
He further explained that God could have chosen ANY woman to give birth to Jesus. Virgin Mary is worshipped solely because she gave birth to Jesus.
Now, that i feel is too much to offend other religions for its own causes.
The catholic thing? My only comment is that this speaker's assessment of the Catholic faith is extremely stereotyped.
Having said all that, I have heard many good speakers who do not feed on the emotions, fears, insecurities and aspirations of the worshippers. These speakers go straight to the doctrinal teachings of the Bible and teach practical lessons. -
He's going to offend lots of people. Many people would find it offensive.Originally posted by Ponders:In point form, he said,
1) "only through us (christianity) will only Heaven opens its gates for you"
2) "other religions are good, our's better"
3) "there are so many tragedies around the world, it is a sign for these people to accept Christ or these tragedies will always befall on them"
4) "look around this world, most of the developed countries has a christian majority population"
5) when he asked new members of congregation to accept christ... he said, "don't hesitate, for those who are scared that parents will object, don't worry, Jesus will sort it out for you"
I can see that he's trying very hard not to make one-sided comments, but it is obviously not working. For example, he admitted that other religions are good, but claims that Christianity is better. Whether which religion is better is subjective. But I don't people will see it this way. They will find it offensive.
For point 5, how can he force people to join?
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I wonder if these incidents are just a minority or a majority preaches them. They are not doing much good to Singapore by saying such things.Originally posted by archon1234:To be fair, living in singapore - multi-racial society, we should treasure the goodwill build-up with our fellow singaporean from different faiths and races. We should not jeapordise and take this good peaceful living environment in Sg for granted! We should respect other fellow singaporeans' faith. -
My guess is that it normally happens during evangelistic rallies. Typically these speakers are not the standard Sunday speaker type. They are more charismatic (in the behavioural sense) and gregarious. Some of these are itnerant speakers engaged for short projects. Something like motivational speakers.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:I wonder if these incidents are just a minority or a majority preaches them. They are not doing much good to Singapore by saying such things.
I have seen some of these engaged by my church to do camps and retreats (normally during June and December). Some concepts that these speakers preach is bordering on being stupid. One time, my own church's head pastor had to step in to fight some "fire" because of some doctrinal differences. -
Raptured should be reading this
There are heck lots more antichrists within churches than the likes of Mahmoud or head of the European Union -
Ok, hearing some of you, I also like to mention that i also went to some church service where sermons are really doctrinal and meaningful.
I actually learnt some things from them on how to see the world in a different light. -
I prefer that they stick to applying the lessons and teachings in the Bible to further character and social development rather than wasting breath trying to sow discord, which will damn them in the end.Originally posted by Ponders:Ok, hearing some of you, I also like to mention that i also went to some church service where sermons are really doctrinal and meaningful.
I actually learnt some things from them on how to see the world in a different light. -
What happened after you all walk out? The new pastor was allowed to continue preaching?Originally posted by archon1234:At least this church still care to say "Other religon are good, but our is better"..
I still remember during my 3mth in a missonary JC (about many many moons) located in southern Singapore near to World Trade Centre, we were forced to go for the church session. Initially, no problem everything were quite nice and we were quite impressed. Then one day, there was this new pastor in the session with us.
This pastor, around his early 40s, went up to the stage and give us a talk. But as the talk went on, the pastor seemed to loose his cool head and started to fan religion hatres. Upon, hearing that he openly declared "All religions, other than Chrsitianity, are satanic!", there was a uproar in the students crowds. A lot of the students stood up and walked out of the hall - included me.
Later, that afternoon, I had a talk with my senior from my Secondary. She told me that it was a common practice here to brainwash the new students. I could not tahan, and moved on to my poly education in the following Jun joint admission.
To be fair, living in singapore - multi-racial society, we should treasure the goodwill build-up with our fellow singaporean from different faiths and races. We should not jeapordise and take this good peaceful living environment in Sg for granted! We should respect other fellow singaporeans' faith.
You said WTC liao, everyone knows it SAJC....lucky, no such things in ACJC. -
accept christ you SINNERS!!! or be prepared to go to HELL!!!