Heaven does not exist - Andrew PK Yap
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How about a world where yuo don't need food and doesn't even need to work for it.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Is there enough food for every man and woman in this planet at this very moment? Yes
Yet many are still dying of hunger... are you sure that the problem is scarcity?
Yes this world is still govern my scarcity... go read some economics books.. -
Neither do we revolve our lives around something that we don't know, do we?Originally posted by mancha:Just because we don't know, it does not mean it do not exist. -
Don't evade... answer this question:Originally posted by banzie:How about a world where yuo don't need food and doesn't even need to work for it.
Yes this world is still govern my scarcity... go read some economics books..
Is there enough food for every man and woman in this planet at this very moment? Yes -
Life would be meaningless if everything is known.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Neither do we revolve our lives around something that we don't know, do we?
When there is no quest for knowledge,
Andrew PK Yap would cease to exist. -
andrew, you talked this way u inviting those christians come preach to you!!! OMG, heaven????? Heaven is a place on earth, as for hell you are in hell when you meet people who keeps breaking rice bowls, backstab and so on .. . . .. Ha ha heaven is a place on earth is a song I heard from radio class95. So is heaven on earth??!!!Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Time is a measurement of change.
Change is a fundamental condition of existing.
Without change, the concept of time is useless.
Without change the concept of heaven is useless....
If everything is already "perfect" then, everything must logically be frozen in place... in perfection.
Either heaven is a place that is at absolute zero and frozen in perfection... or heaven does not exists. -
What is hell, without a little fire.
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When you started to quote Buddhist philosophy, I thought you were another conventional Buddhist... looks like I was wrong... anyone that can sprout such "nonsense" as "if everything is known" can't be clinging to any doctrine...Originally posted by mancha:Life would be meaningless if everything is known.
When there is no quest for knowledge,
Andrew PK Yap would cease to exist.
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actually according to some Buddhist text... Nirvana (hmmm not really heaven is it?) and samsara are not two, not one... they are not existing, Nirvana and samsara, the places are not existing... you are.Originally posted by rane:andrew, you talked this way u inviting those christians come preach to you!!! OMG, heaven????? Heaven is a place on earth, as for hell you are in hell when you meet people who keeps breaking rice bowls, backstab and so on .. . . .. Ha ha heaven is a place on earth is a song I heard from radio class95. So is heaven on earth??!!!
If you are, then it follows that you can be in Nirvana or samsara, up to you... anytime you want... but they do not have any independently verifiable way to teach you how you can do that, unfortunately...
The Christian heaven... that is simply a place where you can see God face to face, or where God rules.... where there is no lack... which of course begs the question, then exist for what? It seems that existence in such a place is simply for "worshiping God" and chit chat with fellow Christians....
Hey! Chit Chat in sgforums is heaven, if you think of fifi as god.... -
Christians come and Buddhists come and Hindus come to preach to me, I welcome them all...Originally posted by rane:andrew, you talked this way u inviting those christians come preach to you!!! -
and my dear mr AEN, it is not looking up the answers.... no problem looking up the answers... but you must be able to explain how the answers are derived....Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Purifying the mind is the process, but not the realisation... purifying the mind is not about getting rid of bad thoughts and keeping good thoughts, it is about clarity/awareness which shines through all our illusions and attachment to 'self' or our sentient thoughts, the clarity that brings about realisation.
"If you do not discard Buddhist scriptures, how can you know its value?" -
If there is no heaven, then those who believe in religion are fools.
But if it exists...........they are the wisest.......already bought insurance.... -
How much did you pay for the premium? and also hor... did you buy from all the insurance companies or not... just in case you bought from the wrong one...Originally posted by Dr Who:If there is no heaven, then those who believe in religion are fools.
But if it exists...........they are the wisest.......already bought insurance.... -
Right.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:When you started to quote Buddhist philosophy, I thought you were another conventional Buddhist... looks like I was wrong... anyone that can sprout such "nonsense" as "if everything is known" can't be clinging to any doctrine...
Quest, quest ,quest.
Think, think, think.
It is said,: A thousand monks, a thousand religion.
It may be the same passage, but the intrepretation/understanding is different. -
hahahaha... the meaning of life? to seek and never find...Originally posted by mancha:Right.
Quest, quest ,quest.
Think, think, think.
It is said,: A thousand monks, a thousand religion.
It may be the same passage, but the intrepretation/understanding is different.
wah lao I like this... if I google and no one has ever said it... I will add to my signature... -
Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:
And yet there is no self to be found.
actually according to some Buddhist text... Nirvana (hmmm not really heaven is it?) and samsara are not two, not one... they are not existing, Nirvana and samsara, the places are not existing... you are.If you are, then it follows that you can be in Nirvana or samsara, up to you... anytime you want... but they do not have any independently verifiable way to teach you how you can do that, unfortunately...
The Buddha taught the 8 Fold Path and Insight practise is the way to Enlightenment. -
I already mentioned how 'answers' (not in the way we know it) are derived - clarity, insight, awareness.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:and my dear mr AEN, it is not looking up the answers.... no problem looking up the answers... but you must be able to explain how the answers are derived....
"If you do not discard Buddhist scriptures, how can you know its value?" -
how many more thread about _____ does not exist?
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Please explain how "8 Fold Path and Insight practise" can Enlighten people. How? Why? Why "8 Fold Path and Insight practise" can Enlighten people.?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:The Buddha taught the 8 Fold Path and Insight practise is the way to Enlightenment.
How will people know when they are enlightened? Is it possible to say "when" someone will become "enlightened"? Will an outsider be able to verify that someone is enlightened?
Please don't tell people to do it first... -
You have totally no idea what I am talking about.... *sigh*Originally posted by An Eternal Now:I already mentioned how 'answers' (not in the way we know it) are derived - clarity, insight, awareness.
What? If someone comes along and say: I see that Existence is Time and just because he is Venerable so and so we must accept it and not question it?
We must try to "see" for ourselves how "Existence is Time" and cannot look at how he arrived at the conclusion?
Are you sure Buddha taught you this? To simply accept?
How are you different from the "dogmatic" religions then?
They say it is authoritative because it is stated in their Holy Book and you say it is authoritative because it is stated in your Sutras...
Without knowing it, you have become a dogmatic person. Do not accept anything that the Sutras say until you can figure it out why it makes sense...
"If you do not throw away Buddhist teachings, how can you know its value?" -
This is only a brief introduction.. those interested please come my forum and read up some of the threads.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Please explain how "8 Fold Path and Insight practise" can Enlighten people. How? Why? Why "8 Fold Path and Insight practise" can Enlighten people.?
How will people know when they are enlightened? Is it possible to say "when" someone will become "enlightened"? Will an outsider be able to verify that someone is enlightened?
Please don't tell people to do it first...
8 fold path is broken down into 3 parts: Morality, Mental Development, Wisdom.
Without morality, one's mind is disturbed by evil thoughts and guilt and etc, and will not be able to practise samadhi and wisdom. Without morality (skillful action, skillful speech, skillful livelihood), you will suffer bad karmic consequences and your life will be in a mess. You will bring others and yourself lots of unnecessary troubles and sufferings.
Next part is mental development, which consists of skillful energy, skillful concentration, and skillful mindfulness. They are necessary otherwise the mind is scattered and will not be able to focus and develope insights. This part of development can lead to all sorts of amazing meditative experiences like jhanic bliss (I had some of these experiences before) which are more blissful than anything (including sex). They may even lead to development of psychic abilities. However, in Buddhism, concentration is not used as a means to itself or to develope psychic powers, but used for developing Insights and Wisdom. Non-Buddhist meditative practises such as Qi Gong, Yoga, etc, belong to the Shamatha category, which are concentrative practises but by itself does not necessarily lead to insights.
The last part, Wisdom, is essential to develope insights into Reality, so that one may awaken from the dream of samsara... into to the dream of samsara. Because nirvana is not somewhere far away, it is just samsara rightly seen. Only a quantum leap in perception is required and this time you know it's dream-like and no longer grasps on appearances. All appearances are self-luminous (expressions of pure awareness) and empty (no locality, only dependent co-arising out of conditions), self-arising and self-liberating. You'll be able to see how the nature/characteristics of phenomena as impermanence (arises and passes instantaneously), dukkha (suffering) and not-self (no self to be found anywhere).
The wisdom section has the two last parts of the path: skillful thought or intention and skillful understanding or wisdom. They are about understanding the truth of your experience and aspire to kindness and wisdom in your thoughts and deeds.
Mental development and Wisdom part is where Shamatha-Insight practise comes in. Whether it is Theravada (they call it Samatha-Vipassana), Zen or Vajrayana (Shamatha-Vipashyana), they all teach this part to develope wisdom that leads to enlightenment.
Here, strong mindfulness and clarity is developed which is able to penetrate through our illusions to realise the nature of our reality/experience (self luminous emptiness, 3 dharma seals, etc). For example we always assume and are comfortably identified with our body-mind as our sense of self. In deep meditative clarity, the arising of thoughts are clearly perceived... In such meditation, one will discover that there is really NO observer of these thoughts. The subsequent thoughts that arise after the previous thought are the 'observation' of their predecessors. This is just an example, paraphrasing one of my friend's own realisations and experiences. There are many series of realisations along one's path, what is mentioned is only one of them. In a way it works like the 'regression' concept you mentioned earlier. Insights developed through deep clarity shatters all our delusions and attachment.
How will people know they are enlightened? When they no longer have doubts about the nature of reality because what is more real than real cannot be doubted. Will an outsider be able to verify? Other enlightened ones have ways to verify, for example Zen Masters have 'checking questions'. Usually enlightened people will know another person's enlightenment just by meeting each other and having a few conversations. For people like me, I can usually make a good guess base on his writings and my guesses are usually quite accurate, though I cannot be sure because I am not enlightened yet. -
Of course one must practise and realise for himself.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:You have totally no idea what I am talking about.... *sigh*
What? If someone comes along and say: I see that Existence is Time and just because he is Venerable so and so we must accept it and not question it?
We must try to "see" for ourselves how "Existence is Time" and cannot look at how he arrived at the conclusion?
Are you sure Buddha taught you this? To simply accept?
How are you different from the "dogmatic" religions then?
They say it is authoritative because it is stated in their Holy Book and you say it is authoritative because it is stated in your Sutras...
Without knowing it, you have become a dogmatic person. Do not accept anything that the Sutras say until you can figure it out why it makes sense...
"If you do not throw away Buddhist teachings, how can you know its value?" -
Not just "practise and realise for himself" my friend... like your previous post, I asked you "how" and "why" following the eight fold path will lead to enlightenment and what did you do?Originally posted by An Eternal Now:Of course one must practise and realise for himself.
You explained what the 8 fold path and the process of the 8 fold path is...
Why is it so difficult to get through to you? -
you are being stressed up I think. Time to see doctor. Don't waste time thinking what doesn't exist. Treasure the things that exist first!
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Thanks, for the advice...Originally posted by MichelleTan:you are being stressed up I think. Time to see doctor. Don't waste time thinking what doesn't exist. Treasure the things that exist first!
but you are "teaching your grandfather how to suck eggs".... -
Wasting time talking to a nutcase.Originally posted by AndrewPKYap:Thanks, for the advice...
but you are "teaching your grandfather how to suck eggs"....