Odex Seeking Compensation From Anime Downloaders
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SingNet: We did not 'consent' to Odex
a bit too late?
SINGNET has clarified that it did not 'consent' to demands by Odex to hand over details about subscribers allegedly downloading pirated Japanese cartoons, called anime.
The Internet service provider (ISP), which is being slammed online for its apparent capitulation in the controversial case, says in no way did it help Odex's application.
SingNet spokesman Chia Boon Chong said, 'We reject all requests from third parties for information pertaining to our customers. We will release such information only under a court order or if the law enforcement and regulatory agencies demand such information from us.'
In Odex's case, as it does in all such cases, he said, the firm would 'entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling'.
The Telecommunications Competition Code prohibits ISPs from disclosing subscriber information without a court order, and a spokesman for the Infocomm Development Authority said SingNet had not breached the code.
Odex won court orders earlier this year to get SingNet and StarHub to disclose names of subscribers allegedly downloading anime.
When Odex failed to obtain a similar order against Pacific Internet (PacNet) last Thursday, people began wondering why.
Online attacks against SingNet intensified after District Judge Ernest Lau published in his written judgement that 'for the SingNet case, the orders were made by consent'. He also said that SingNet did not even appear in court. Different judges had ruled in all three cases.
Many people, including corporate counsel and Nominated Member of Parliament Siew Kum Hong, interpreted this to mean that SingNet had agreed to Odex's application, thus expediting it.
Online users thus felt SingNet had betrayed them, and this probably fuelled the online outrage against the ISP, said Mr Siew, who maintains a well-read blog. -
Odex affiliate raided for counterfeiting 8 years ago
the boy who cried wolf
A ONE-TIME firm started by the men behind Odex, the company at the centre of a crackdown on illegal downloading of anime, was itself raided by police for copyright infringement.
The firm - Games Mart - was set up by Odex director Peter Go in 1994 to sell video game consoles, games and accessories.
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Originally posted by duotiga83:
According to your link, it's an incomplete article.. have to wait for wednesday's printed straits times to read full article.. i'll see if i'm free to type out from the newspaper tmrw..
[b]SingNet: We did not 'consent' to Odex
SINGNET has clarified that it did not 'consent' to demands by Odex to hand over details about subscribers allegedly downloading pirated Japanese cartoons, called anime.
The Internet service provider (ISP), which is being slammed online for its apparent capitulation in the controversial case, says in no way did it help Odex's application.
SingNet spokesman Chia Boon Chong said, 'We reject all requests from third parties for information pertaining to our customers. We will release such information only under a court order or if the law enforcement and regulatory agencies demand such information from us.'
In Odex's case, as it does in all such cases, he said, the firm would 'entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling'.
The Telecommunications Competition Code prohibits ISPs from disclosing subscriber information without a court order, and a spokesman for the Infocomm Development Authority said SingNet had not breached the code.
Odex won court orders earlier this year to get SingNet and StarHub to disclose names of subscribers allegedly downloading anime.
When Odex failed to obtain a similar order against Pacific Internet (PacNet) last Thursday, people began wondering why.
Online attacks against SingNet intensified after District Judge Ernest Lau published in his written judgement that 'for the SingNet case, the orders were made by consent'. He also said that SingNet did not even appear in court. Different judges had ruled in all three cases.
Many people, including corporate counsel and Nominated Member of Parliament Siew Kum Hong, interpreted this to mean that SingNet had agreed to Odex's application, thus expediting it.
Online users thus felt SingNet had betrayed them, and this probably fuelled the online outrage against the ISP, said Mr Siew, who maintains a well-read blog.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_152613.html[/b]
however, from what is already up there, is singnet stupid or wad? "(SingNet) said, the firm would 'entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling'."
the courts have to decide base on arguments from both affected parties right? in this case is Odex vs SingNet.. WTH la how can singnet say they leave it to the courts to decide..
its like a boy called xedo go complain to the court that a small girl stole his sweet and want the court to order her to give him $10 for stealing the sweet. then the girl just cry and keep quiet - even though she didn't steal it. of cos the judge will pass the wrong judgement since the girl didn't even argue the case right?!
STUPID SINGNET! -
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Source: http://www.todayonline.com/articles/207873.asp
Former hacker to help appeal against court ruling
Anime distributor Odex has roped in a Silicon Valley-based former hacker to appeal against a court's decision. Last Thursday, Odex failed in its bid to force Pacific Internet (PacNet) to hand over the data of suspected illegal downloaders, whom Odex had tracked down with the help of Internet investigation firm BayTSP.
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BayTSP's chief executive officer Mark Ishikawa, a former hacker, will arrive in Singapore later this week to help Odex prepare its appeal, according to his publicist Jim Graham.
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Mr Ishikawa has has appeared as an expert witness in the United States on peer-to-peer technologies. Recently, BayTSP gathered evidence for Viacom in its US$1-billion ($1.5-billion) lawsuit against Google and YouTube.
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Mr Graham told Today: "Mark will be working with Odex to demonstrate that we were under contract to Odex and that our data identified the IP addresses of individuals who were downloading and sharing copyrighted material licensed by Odex."
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— LOH CHEE KONG -
a former hacker??
better check if that guy have committed any offence against singapore law under the computer misuse act.
Unauthorised use or interception of a computer service
Any person who knowingly and without authority: (i) secures access to any computer to obtain services; or (ii) intercepts, records or listens to a function or a communication to or from a computer; or (iii) uses any other device to carry out acts (i) or (ii), shall be guilty of an offence and the sentence on conviction is a fine not exceeding $10,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 3 years or both.
These offences would refer to the hacking of computer systems for the purpose of gaining free internet services or to carry out spying activities.
Enhanced Punishments
A greater penalty other that the ones mentioned above will be imposed by the Courts: (i) if any damage is caused as a result of offences committed under the Act involving unauthorised usage of computers; or (ii) if a person has been convicted for the same offence before
In addition, persons committing offences under the Act involving unauthorised usage or access of computers that are used in connection with national security, public safety and key infrastructure will also suffer greater penalty, that is, sentencing on conviction is a fine not exceeding $100,000 or to imprisonment for a term not exceeding 20 years or both.
Scope of the Act
The Act applies to Singaporeans and non-Singaporeans alike and any offence committed under the Act outside of Singapore may be treated as being committed within Singapore.
In addition the Act will apply if at the time of the commission of the offence, either the person accused of committing the offence or the computer, program or data in question was in Singapore.
Police Investigative Powers
If a police officer has reasonable cause to suspect that a computer is or has been used in connection with any offences under the Act, he may be entitled at any time to have access to and inspect the operation of the computer and with the consent of the Public Prosecutor may require the person having charge of the computer to release information sufficient for the police officer to decrypt scrambled data held in the computer for inspection and investigation. -
The Act applies to Singaporeans and non-Singaporeans alike and any offence committed under the Act outside of Singapore may be treated as being committed within Singapore.
In addition the Act will apply if at the time of the commission of the offence, either the person accused of committing the offence or the computer, program or data in question was in Singapore. -
Scope of the Act
So we can go into other countries and catch people?
The Act applies to Singaporeans and non-Singaporeans alike and any offence committed under the Act outside of Singapore may be treated as being committed within Singapore.
In addition the Act will apply if at the time of the commission of the offence, either the person accused of committing the offence or the computer, program or data in question was in Singapore.
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that guy is not your everyday hacker he's the chief executive of BayTSP, the issue raised by the judge about whether on how odex acquire the ip of downloaders will be settled with him testifying, now it will be the licensing part that will determine if odex wins or lose
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singnet said they did not consent but will consent following a court order...of course la!!!!!!ODEX applied for court order to ask singtel to release infos...singnet dun even bothered to fight back......the judge bo bian has to issue the case in ODEX favour.....
Singnet still say until like not their fault. -
SingNet spokesman Chia Boon Chong said, 'We reject all requests from third parties for information pertaining to our customers. We will release such information only under a court order or if the law enforcement and regulatory agencies demand such information from us.'
Hello this guy - is he the former iraq information minister student !!!
Even if court order come meant that someone is requesting a case to be heard on court - Singnet take customer money, so it have the need to read it through and see if the guy have a case and attend court to sort it out. Singnet did not even question - throw in the towel of course in the end court verdict is to release the names.
So if someone sue singnet today for over failure of their customers - yep there be a court order to attend court also , so is singnet going to say - oh got court order - i pay that guy and give him what he wants !!! stupid right .... they will have to check if why he sue and if he is legal customers right ....
Failure = failure in their duty the more they say - only will make things worst !!!! Result is they blur sotong did not do their job !!! -
Originally posted by Tayysj:
They will do anything to get what they want. Money from the fines to hired a former hacker from other country. What will they do next? Hired the president of Japan company of producing amine, a former criminal, etc. From this case you can see that they are so rich. Said their sale drop, lying.
Source: http://www.todayonline.com/articles/207873.asp
[b]Former hacker to help appeal against court ruling
Anime distributor Odex has roped in a Silicon Valley-based former hacker to appeal against a court's decision. Last Thursday, Odex failed in its bid to force Pacific Internet (PacNet) to hand over the data of suspected illegal downloaders, whom Odex had tracked down with the help of Internet investigation firm BayTSP.
.
BayTSP's chief executive officer Mark Ishikawa, a former hacker, will arrive in Singapore later this week to help Odex prepare its appeal, according to his publicist Jim Graham.
.
Mr Ishikawa has has appeared as an expert witness in the United States on peer-to-peer technologies. Recently, BayTSP gathered evidence for Viacom in its US$1-billion ($1.5-billion) lawsuit against Google and YouTube.
.
Mr Graham told Today: "Mark will be working with Odex to demonstrate that we were under contract to Odex and that our data identified the IP addresses of individuals who were downloading and sharing copyrighted material licensed by Odex."
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— LOH CHEE KONG[/b]
Singnet hired lawyers are all idiots.
If LKY or LHL family member is caught downloading. he will sent 10 or 20 lawyers to fight until odex lose the case completely.
The flaw of law can sometime be use to protect the evil. I hope they lose the appeal and close down. -
they're trying to bluff people who do not read deeper and analyze.Originally posted by storywolf:Hello this guy - is he the former iraq information minister student !!!
Even if court order come meant that someone is requesting a case to be heard on court - Singnet take customer money, so it have the need to read it through and see if the guy have a case and attend court to sort it out. Singnet did not even question - throw in the towel of course in the end court verdict is to release the names.
So if someone sue singnet today for over failure of their customers - yep there be a court order to attend court also , so is singnet going to say - oh got court order - i pay that guy and give him what he wants !!! stupid right .... they will have to check if why he sue and if he is legal customers right ....
Failure = failure in their duty the more they say - only will make things worst !!!! Result is they blur sotong did not do their job !!! -
wat kind of anime?Originally posted by sunnytv:If LKY or LHL family member is caught downloading. he will sent 10 or 20 lawyers to fight until odex lose the case completely. -
Originally posted by duotiga83:
Eh okay i typed out the rest of the article from the printed edition of the straits times today.. enjoy! =)
SingNet: We did not 'consent' to Odex
SINGNET has clarified that it did not 'consent' to demands by Odex to hand over details about subscribers allegedly downloading pirated Japanese cartoons, called anime.
The Internet service provider (ISP), which is being slammed online for its apparent capitulation in the controversial case, says in no way did it help Odex's application.
SingNet spokesman Chia Boon Chong said, 'We reject all requests from third parties for information pertaining to our customers. We will release such information only under a court order or if the law enforcement and regulatory agencies demand such information from us.'
In Odex's case, as it does in all such cases, he said, the firm would 'entrust the courts to apply the law and make a ruling'.
The Telecommunications Competition Code prohibits ISPs from disclosing subscriber information without a court order, and a spokesman for the Infocomm Development Authority said SingNet had not breached the code.
Odex won court orders earlier this year to get SingNet and StarHub to disclose names of subscribers allegedly downloading anime.
When Odex failed to obtain a similar order against Pacific Internet (PacNet) last Thursday, people began wondering why.
Online attacks against SingNet intensified after District Judge Ernest Lau published in his written judgement that 'for the SingNet case, the orders were made by consent'. He also said that SingNet did not even appear in court. Different judges had ruled in all three cases.
Many people, including corporate counsel and Nominated Member of Parliament Siew Kum Hong, interpreted this to mean that SingNet had agreed to Odex's application, thus expediting it.
Online users thus felt SingNet had betrayed them, and this probably fuelled the online outrage against the ISP, said Mr Siew, who maintains a well-read blog.
In fact, when he first read of SingNet's "consent", he wanted to raise the issue of subscriber information privacy at parliament's next sitting next month.
StarHub, which was not reported to have given its "consent" to Odex and which had sent lawyers to the hearing, appears to have taken less heat, although it also lost.
Odex wanted subscribers' names so it could send letters demanding settlement for alleged copyright infriengement.
Applications like the one Odex sought are known as "pre-action discovery" and are used by firms to assess if there is enough evidence to make a case.
Lawyers say they are usually routine affairs, but they believe they may become harder to get due to the publicity over SingNet's response.
This was because "other judges will likely scrutinise such applications even if ISPs do not do anything in future," said Mr Siew, adding that this would be a "good thing for privacy".
Even as he turned down Odex's application, Judge Lau warned Net users that privacy is not meant to be a shield behind which they can steal intellectual property.
"If a clear case of infringement is proven," he wrote, "copyright owners and their exclusive licensees can expect pre-action assistance from the court."
Original source: http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_152613.html
Extended brown source: The Straits Times Aug 29th 2007, Pg H4 -
In legal sense even if the hacker can prove that it was downloaded to the computer of the users does not - mean that you are infringe the copyright !!!Originally posted by dranoel maxwell:that guy is not your everyday hacker he's the chief executive of BayTSP, the issue raised by the judge about whether on how odex acquire the ip of downloaders will be settled with him testifying, now it will be the licensing part that will determine if odex wins or lose
What happen if someone email as a link - telling you it is a video of their birthday, but they give you a wrong link and it turn out to be a anime ... which you delete it . Does that mean you have are guilty...
So if someone is kill at your home - can you be charge with murder just because it is your house ..... More work need to be done , they still have to find the murder weapons and motive and but the case.... !!!!
I think if we just let any hacker just say oh this IP download it - question - can he prove that it is intentional or unintentional .... what he is just saying oh that the house .... it does not mean proving that a crime is really committed there.
He hacker so ...... Geylang got more more hackers - Uncle Soh - best durian hacker in singapore & malaysia , Ah lian from china best hacker of man - best in singapore & china ...... he wait long long his turn .... He come, we sponsor him to geylang, let Ah Lian spend one night with him , download aids virus up his USB , let virus wipe up his cpu and corrupt his ram till totally system failure. -
actually the downloaders are already guilty. the download was not by links but by bittorrent and the titles are VERY clear - inuyasha ep xx, bleach ep xx that kind..Originally posted by storywolf:In legal sense even if the hacker can prove that it was downloaded to the computer of the users does not - mean that you are infringe the copyright !!!
What happen if someone email as a link - telling you it is a video of their birthday, but they give you a wrong link and it turn out to be a anime ... which you delete it . Does that mean you have are guilty...
So if someone is kill at your home - can you be charge with murder just because it is your house ..... More work need to be done , they still have to find the murder weapons and motive and but the case.... !!!!
I think if we just let any hacker just say oh this IP download it - question - can he prove that it is intentional or unintentional .... what he is just saying oh that the house .... it does not mean proving that a crime is really committed there.
He hacker so ...... Geylang got more more hackers - Uncle Soh - best durian hacker in singapore & malaysia , Ah lian from china best hacker of man - best in singapore & china ...... he wait long long his turn .... He come, we sponsor him to geylang, let Ah Lian spend one night with him , download aids virus up his USB , let virus wipe up his cpu and corrupt his ram till totally system failure.
the only issue is whether Odex was the right person to take legal action against these people and the way in which odex carried out the action. -
you forget that torrent names can be change.....Originally posted by Tayysj:actually the downloaders are already guilty. the download was not by links but by bittorrent and the titles are VERY clear - inuyasha ep xx, bleach ep xx that kind..
the only issue is whether Odex was the right person to take legal action against these people and the way in which odex carried out the action. what you dl sometimes might not be what you want...... -
So despo to win the case, spend money just to get the asspurts... They remind me of an american case where the judge sued this laundry service shop for misplacing his pants... Demanding an overboard compensation...
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I would like to see the "former hacker" prove a person's identity beyond just the IP Address. Suddenly the they keyboard got thumbprint recognition that identifies XXX user for pressing the "Enter" Key to download YYY anime.
Mission impossible. -
Wrong.Originally posted by Tayysj:actually the downloaders are already guilty. the download was not by links but by bittorrent and the titles are VERY clear - inuyasha ep xx, bleach ep xx that kind..
the only issue is whether Odex was the right person to take legal action against these people and the way in which odex carried out the action.
It is the content and not the filenames that matter.
It's easy to mount a false-flag exercise to spoof these crawlers. Has been done before, ain't that hard. -
Not for Singapore definitely. Our IP addresses change way too many times. And ODEX did admit that IP addresses can't be used to prove, because they said this once before: Ask ISP to release 1000 IP addresses info != 1000 people downloaded, thus it doesn't mean they will profit $3000 X 1000 = $3,000,000
Based on this point alone, they have lost thoroughly; I don't see why the hacker or should I say founder of BayTSP should even bother to help. -
Americans are just funny. Anyway, our case is even more hilarious! With defendant themselves owning up that something is not possible, then getting an ex-hacker to say otherwise, is plain dumb.Originally posted by wonderamazement:So despo to win the case, spend money just to get the asspurts... They remind me of an american case where the judge sued this laundry service shop for misplacing his pants... Demanding an overboard compensation... -
shows that never do their study before making a case......Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Americans are just funny. Anyway, our case is even more hilarious! With defendant themselves owning up that something is not possible, then getting an ex-hacker to say otherwise, is plain dumb. -
cause odex pay them $$$ ma.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:Based on this point alone, they have lost thoroughly; I don't see why the hacker or should I say founder of BayTSP should even bother to help.