Odex Seeking Compensation From Anime Downloaders
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Odex says it is not going after illegal downloaders for profit
By Foo Siew Shyan, Channel NewsAsia | Posted: 30 August 2007 2211 hrs
SINGAPORE: Anime distributor Odex has defended its action against illegal downloaders as a form of enforcement against piracy rather than for profit.
Rumour has it that the company earned some S$15 million by taking action against illegal downloads.
Computer users, most of them teens, have been pilfering anime titles from the Web.
In fact, one report even ranked Singapore number one in the world, when it comes to illegal anime downloads per capita.
Odex has uncovered close to 500,000 cases of illegal downloading so far.
To further prove its point, Odex has roped in about 30 Japanese copyright holders who have said they will support Odex in its legal move.
That move saw Odex going to court to force SingNet and StarHub to release the names of its subscribers who have illegally downloaded its cartoons.
The result - a backlash against Odex.
Some people have accused the company of sending 1,000 warning letters, each supposedly called for the identified subscriber to pay between S$3,000 and S$5,000 in fines.
But at a news conference on Thursday, Odex said that there was no fine involved.
300 letters were sent out, it said.
About a third of the recipients settled with Odex for an undisclosed sum.
The rest are being mediated.
The company claimed that any excess money from the move, after deducting costs, will be donated to a charitable cause.
Odex added that no one was forced to pay beyond his/her means.
"This exercise was never meant to be just an enforcement. It's not a profiteering mission to get as much money from everybody. It was conceptualized with a very big picture (in mind). Illegal downloaders can download animes for all they want....five years, ten years, there will be nothing left to download. This is the fear that most strikes us. We want to address that situation," said Stephen Sing, director of Odex Pte Ltd.
That's why Odex still plans to continue what it calls its enforcement process.
Its target - an 80 or 90 percent reduction in illegal downloads.
That seems like quite a stretch, since the company has seen only a 17% drop in illegal downloads this month.
More importantly, Odex may not have the right to pursue its so-called enforcement after all.
Despite the company's success against SingTel and StarHub, a judge has ruled that Pacific Internet does not have to give up the names of its subscribers who have been accused of illegally downloading anime.
This is because the court found that Odex is just a sub-licensee and not the copyright owner or exclusive licensee for most of the anime titles sold in Singapore.
Odex says it will launch an appeal to reverse the latest court ruling. - CNA/ir
self righteousness -
They can bring in whoever they want. They still need to have a documentation from those copyright holders stating that ODEX is the EXCLUSIVE LICENSEE so that they can take action the behalf of the copyright holders.Originally posted by duotiga83:Odex stands firm on pursuing illegal downloaders of anime
By Jermyn Chow
ANIME distributor Odex is standing firm on its stance to pursue illegal downloaders.
Clarifying its position in a media conference on Thursday, the company even brought in the muscle of anime copyright holders from Japan to back its case.
Odex said it had to take legal action because of the large numbers of illegal downloaders of the Japanese anime titles it brought in.
The company revealed that over 483,000 illegal downloads had been made here over the past 10 months alone - making Singapore 10th on the list of countries worldwide with the most illegal anime downloaders.
Compounding the problem - 59 per cent of households here have high-speed broadband access.
So Singapore has the highest percentage of anime downloads per capita, far ahead of countries like the United States, Australia and Hong Kong.
Odex's aim, said its managing director Peter Go, is to bring down the number of illegal downloads to about 85 per cent.
Odex authorised to act on behalf of copyright holders
To further bolster its case, Odex brought in representatives of four Japanese studios, which own the copyrights of blockbuster series like Naruto, Dragonball, Tsubasa Chronicles, and Romeo and Juliet.
The representatives told reporters through an interpreter, that they support Odex's legal action.
All four studios had in fact issued authorisation letters for Odex to act on their behalf, before the company went to the courts.
Said Mr Yukio Kawasaki, manager of TV Tokyo Corpration: 'If there is a necessity from the courts of Singapore requiring us to come down (physically), then we will come.'
The studios appealed to anime fans to stick to original copies.
Appealing court orders
Odex is currently in the midst of appealing to get a court order which will force Pacific Internet to supply the names of illegal downloaders using its service. A judge had turned down its request last Thursday (Aug 23).
To date, Odex has sent out 300 letters, from the 1,000 Internet Protocol (IP) addresses that SingTel had provided. An IP address is a string of numbers that can identify a user, although web addresses are commonly shared here.
StarHub has also been served with a court order to provide Odex with another 100 ISP addresses.
The Odex fracas has led to fervent online chatter with some anime fans vilifying Odex and others voicing outrage over the court orders forcing Internet Service Providers to reveal the names of their subscribers.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_153203.html
And they have to show that such an agreement was in effect before ODEX even began to send those letters. Otherwise, its like driving a car before getting your license. -
wait a min......what about streaming anime via youtube?
odex also can detect??!! -
Give money to charities? I didn't know thats how compensations work. And all along innoncent ol me was thinking compensation means the money was to actually "COMPENSATE" me for my losses.Originally posted by Lin Yu: self righteousness
If its a compensation, not an extra cent beyond what is reasonably lost should be taken!
They take 1000 names from each ISP, and they claim to have sent out 300 letters only. I'm not surprised. They cannot possibly process 2000 letters at once right? Unless they really become the Ministry of Anime Security.
Please lar, for goodness sake, they expect people to believe that as a Pte Ltd, they are doing something thats NOT FOR PROFIT and for the GREATER good of anime lovers in Singapore? -
can summaries for you liaoOriginally posted by Shotgun:Give money to charities? I didn't know thats how compensations work. And all along innoncent ol me was thinking compensation means the money was to actually "COMPENSATE" me for my losses.
If its a compensation, not an extra cent beyond what is reasonably lost should be taken!
They take 1000 names from each ISP, and they claim to have sent out 300 letters only. I'm not surprised. They cannot possibly process 2000 letters at once right? Unless they really become the Ministry of Anime Security.
Please lar, for goodness sake, they expect people to believe that as a Pte Ltd, they are doing something thats NOT FOR PROFIT and for the GREATER good of anime lovers in Singapore?
WAYANG -
maybe Odex and its 'japanese partners' can take on the Giant youtube and see where it goes..Originally posted by Nikar2:wait a min......what about streaming anime via youtube?
odex also can detect??!!
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youtube already start to remove alot of licensed stuff after they got bought over by google.Originally posted by 4getmenot:maybe Odex and its 'japanese partners' can take on the Giant youtube and see where it goes.. -
odex to youtube is just a small fryOriginally posted by 4getmenot:maybe Odex and its 'japanese partners' can take on the Giant youtube and see where it goes..
if come into legal stuff
dun think they have the money to play around with youtube -
Oh yes, I know that. According to the law, downloading of p0rn is illegal in Singapore, however watching it is not.Originally posted by dumbdumb!:hmm, i remember reading in a singapore website. about the internet ethics or something.
like in the case of p0rn, you're in the wrong if u download, but if don't download they don't disturb you, something like that
That means you can only watch it online (streaming), but not download to your computer. This action is not illegal because the actual file is not on your computer.
I was wondering does this principle works on anime too?
We did not download the file we only stream from the net, thus they can't sue us since the actual file is not downloaded to our computer, but on the stream server.
So if they want to sue they can sue the owner of the server instead.
But then, even if they want to sue those streamers, they have to ask the stream server (e.g. crunchyroll) to release the IPs. I doubt the stream server will just tiam tiam like singnet hand over the list. Even if odex insist, odex have to obtain the stream server's country court orders and fight case, like that would be too troublesome and won't give them any good.
Or else, i can see no way for odex to obtain the IPs on who watched what, unless they go through illegal means like hacking. -
thats not my point since Odex is saying its doing it for the greater good of all anime lovers in singapore, might as well do it all the way across the shores, y stick it to singapore shores only? since internet users will still be able to watch this animes online.. hell might as well get court order to bar youtube from being accessed by singapore IP..Originally posted by stellazio:youtube already start to remove alot of licensed stuff after they got bought over by google.
if they cared in the first place, they shud have done a proper job in their products' qualities.. -
In anycase, what really stinks is the fact that Odex is creating all this unhappiness.
"I'm suing you because you're not buying what I'm selling, which is available over the internet for free." On top of that, what they are selling is available FREE in Japan anyways. So don't even compare this to mp3s. -
well they CLAIM to be the SOLE DISTRIBUTOR for SG, MSIA n IDONESIAOriginally posted by Shotgun:In anycase, what really stinks is the fact that Odex is creating all this unhappiness.
"I'm suing you because you're not buying what I'm selling, which is available over the internet for free." On top of that, what they are selling is available FREE in Japan anyways. So don't even compare this to mp3s. so EXPECTING FANS TO BUY FROM THEM
http://www.odex.com.sg/?p=aboutUs
ODEX is a privately owned local company in the Singapore Media scene with its forte in Japanese Anime since 1997. A member of the Anti-Video Piracy Association of Singapore (AVPAS), ODEX has established itself as a forerunner and market leader in the distribution of licensed Japanese Anime programs in Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia. Besides distributing Japanese Anime in VCD and DVD formats, ODEX is very much involved in the TV broadcast of Japanese Anime in its 3 licensed territories and is a major service provider for Mandarine and American-English dubbing. Presenting premium quality Japanese Anime from its animators to its anime fans – that is ODEX.
• Studio Odex is the in-house anime dubbing arm of Odex Pte. Ltd.
• We dub titles into English and Malay for Local, South East Asian market.
• Studio Odex's work can be seen on every week on TV stations throughout the region.
• Operational for almost three years, Studio Odex has dubbed hundreds of episodes of popular anime and live action titles enjoyed by kids and adults all over Singapore and the rest Asia.
• Studio Odex also holds the distinction of being the first and only studio in Asia to dub anime into English for the USA market. With several titles under our belt and more on the way, we plan to grow this market and build worldwide awareness of the talent and technical abilities Singapore has to offer in the field of entertainment. -
1. IP addresses logged by those streaming servers won't be our real IP addresses. All Singapore connections going out are masked by a proxy and is needed under the law.Originally posted by furb:
But then, even if they want to sue those streamers, they have to ask the stream server (e.g. crunchyroll) to release the IPs. I doubt the stream server will just tiam tiam like singnet hand over the list. Even if odex insist, odex have to obtain the stream server's country court orders and fight case, like that would be too troublesome and won't give them any good.
Or else, i can see no way for odex to obtain the IPs on who watched what, unless they go through illegal means like hacking.
2. Depending on where the servers are hosted, they are unlikely to be able to get hold of the IP addresses, even with a court order, due to DPA or Data Protection Act. Somebody in the UK has been sued because of this. US has DPA as well and Google is in US, so it's technically not possible. ODEX has too many hurdles to cross.
3. If they go through illegal means such as hacking, the streaming companies can counter-sue back and chances of winning is high. DPA protects data = no leakage of data, attempts to view will be seen as breach.
If they cracked that network and seen the data, they are gone case. It's a total computer security breach, and they may go bankrupt. -
ODEX gives no flying damn about the quality. What they stress is you must get the anime legally or they will make your life hellish. Simple. And with the latest VOD that expires in 7 days, paying $1 through Paypal, it's even worse.Originally posted by 4getmenot:thats not my point since Odex is saying its doing it for the greater good of all anime lovers in singapore, might as well do it all the way across the shores, y stick it to singapore shores only? since internet users will still be able to watch this animes online.. hell might as well get court order to bar youtube from being accessed by singapore IP..
if they cared in the first place, they shud have done a proper job in their products' qualities..
And may I ask, how many fans really do have a Paypal account? -
So technically, it is safe to view streams.Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:1. IP addresses logged by those streaming servers won't be our real IP addresses. All Singapore connections going out are masked by a proxy and is needed under the law.
2. Depending on where the servers are hosted, they are unlikely to be able to get hold of the IP addresses, even with a court order, due to DPA or Data Protection Act. Somebody in the UK has been sued because of this. US has DPA as well and Google is in US, so it's technically not possible. ODEX has too many hurdles to cross.
3. If they go through illegal means such as hacking, the streaming companies can counter-sue back and chances of winning is high. DPA protects data = no leakage of data, attempts to view will be seen as breach.
If they cracked that network and seen the data, they are gone case. It's a total computer security breach, and they may go bankrupt. -
Seriously, can the interpreter come visit me so i can tell him to help me translate to jap to the studios that ODEX IS SELLING VERY LOUSY QUALITY VERSIONS OF UR SHOWS. I would be very happy to buy ur original copies if u can give me better service, quality, and overall anime experience.Originally posted by duotiga83:Odex stands firm on pursuing illegal downloaders of anime
By Jermyn Chow
ANIME distributor Odex is standing firm on its stance to pursue illegal downloaders.
Clarifying its position in a media conference on Thursday, the company even brought in the muscle of anime copyright holders from Japan to back its case.
Odex said it had to take legal action because of the large numbers of illegal downloaders of the Japanese anime titles it brought in.
The company revealed that over 483,000 illegal downloads had been made here over the past 10 months alone - making Singapore 10th on the list of countries worldwide with the most illegal anime downloaders.
Compounding the problem - 59 per cent of households here have high-speed broadband access.
So Singapore has the highest percentage of anime downloads per capita, far ahead of countries like the United States, Australia and Hong Kong.
Odex's aim, said its managing director Peter Go, is to bring down the number of illegal downloads to about 85 per cent.
Odex authorised to act on behalf of copyright holders
To further bolster its case, Odex brought in representatives of four Japanese studios, which own the copyrights of blockbuster series like Naruto, Dragonball, Tsubasa Chronicles, and Romeo and Juliet.
The representatives told reporters through an interpreter, that they support Odex's legal action.
All four studios had in fact issued authorisation letters for Odex to act on their behalf, before the company went to the courts.
Said Mr Yukio Kawasaki, manager of TV Tokyo Corpration: 'If there is a necessity from the courts of Singapore requiring us to come down (physically), then we will come.'
The studios appealed to anime fans to stick to original copies.
Appealing court orders
Odex is currently in the midst of appealing to get a court order which will force Pacific Internet to supply the names of illegal downloaders using its service. A judge had turned down its request last Thursday (Aug 23).
To date, Odex has sent out 300 letters, from the 1,000 Internet Protocol (IP) addresses that SingTel had provided. An IP address is a string of numbers that can identify a user, although web addresses are commonly shared here.
StarHub has also been served with a court order to provide Odex with another 100 ISP addresses.
The Odex fracas has led to fervent online chatter with some anime fans vilifying Odex and others voicing outrage over the court orders forcing Internet Service Providers to reveal the names of their subscribers.
http://www.straitstimes.com/Latest%2BNews/Singapore/STIStory_153203.html
I've tried to buy original anime before, but 1) i couldn't find dvds, 2) i couldn't get more information from the cover or the shop abt what the show is abt 3) audio language sometimes not in jap 4) subtitles sometimes dun have english only chi or something else.. 5) apparently even the english subtitles are terrible..
in fact, a case in point, i dont even watch channel 84 (animax) because they dont have jap audio + eng sub.. they only have chi sub with jap/eng audio.. if i see something that looks nice on animax, i'll find it in youtube instead.. it's not because i dont have access to the original show.. i pay for the channel group and i have the channel but it just isn't given to me the way I want it..
The case here is such that I WOULD PAY FOR THE FANSUB if it had a price and was a commercial sale, but I would NOT even watch odex's copies even if they were free.
Pls, can someone tell the jap studios this? -_- -
woah, do you happen to study IT Laws or something? Whats your profession?Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:1. IP addresses logged by those streaming servers won't be our real IP addresses. All Singapore connections going out are masked by a proxy and is needed under the law.
2. Depending on where the servers are hosted, they are unlikely to be able to get hold of the IP addresses, even with a court order, due to DPA or Data Protection Act. Somebody in the UK has been sued because of this. US has DPA as well and Google is in US, so it's technically not possible. ODEX has too many hurdles to cross.
3. If they go through illegal means such as hacking, the streaming companies can counter-sue back and chances of winning is high. DPA protects data = no leakage of data, attempts to view will be seen as breach.
If they cracked that network and seen the data, they are gone case. It's a total computer security breach, and they may go bankrupt. -
actually they already clarified your red points in www.odex.com.sgOriginally posted by Lin Yu: self righteousness -
she works as IT SecurityOriginally posted by Shotgun:woah, do you happen to study IT Laws or something? Whats your profession?
those work in computers engineering are well aware of these kind also -
detect? not really, its harder than bittorrent. check? yes. but they will need a search warrant to enter your house to search your computer for the evidence.Originally posted by Nikar2:wait a min......what about streaming anime via youtube?
odex also can detect??!! -
Actually, it's 1000 IP addresses. There's a few things u need to understand first. If you are using dial-up internet, everytime u connect to the internet and disconnect, it's a NEW IP address.Originally posted by Shotgun:They take 1000 names from each ISP, and they claim to have sent out 300 letters only. I'm not surprised. They cannot possibly process 2000 letters at once right? Unless they really become the Ministry of Anime Security.
Please lar, for goodness sake, they expect people to believe that as a Pte Ltd, they are doing something thats NOT FOR PROFIT and for the GREATER good of anime lovers in Singapore?
Same for broadband if you disconnect frequently. The IP Address assigned to each house is usually only valid until you disconnect.
Therefore, 1000 IP address cannot translate to 1000 people.. The newspaper has also clarified this, odex themself also clarified this point, so it's impossible to reach the $15m revenue that the rumour says even if they "fine" each person $5000.. -
actually they only remove after being told by the copyright holders of the infringement. There is actually an ongoing lawsuit in the USA. Viacom VS Google(Youtube)..Originally posted by stellazio:youtube already start to remove alot of licensed stuff after they got bought over by google.
they are saying that youtube is very slack.. they dont care abt copyright and let people anyhow post, but google says that it is following the law because there is a law made in 1980 something that says that online stuff that are copyrighted must be removed once they are told by the copyright holder abt it.. which is what youtube does.. it removes copyright stuff only after the owner tells them. problem is that pple will almost immediately post the same thing again after the removal.
basically viacom says that youtube will force companies to have a whole new department paid to just watch youtube then every min got their copyright thing inside must call youtube to remove.. they are arguing that...
aiya.. pls search google as this is kinda out of point.. look for the viacom vs youtube case.. cnet also got write abt it.. -
IT Laws? No, I don't take them. I happen to wonder around a lot of international forums and newsgroups, that's why I know.Originally posted by Shotgun:woah, do you happen to study IT Laws or something? Whats your profession?
Of the so many IT Laws, I'm only acquainted with our Computer Misuse Act. The rest, no.
I'm in IT Security. -
actually wrong.. streaming and downloading are one and the same thing.. i think i already said this in an earlier page of this thread but nvm i'll repeat..Originally posted by furb:Oh yes, I know that. According to the law, downloading of p0rn is illegal in Singapore, however watching it is not.
That means you can only watch it online (streaming), but not download to your computer. This action is not illegal because the actual file is not on your computer.
I was wondering does this principle works on anime too?
We did not download the file we only stream from the net, thus they can't sue us since the actual file is not downloaded to our computer, but on the stream server.
So if they want to sue they can sue the owner of the server instead.
But then, even if they want to sue those streamers, they have to ask the stream server (e.g. crunchyroll) to release the IPs. I doubt the stream server will just tiam tiam like singnet hand over the list. Even if odex insist, odex have to obtain the stream server's country court orders and fight case, like that would be too troublesome and won't give them any good.
Or else, i can see no way for odex to obtain the IPs on who watched what, unless they go through illegal means like hacking.
when something streams, it is downloaded to your computer and your computer plays it immediately instead of waiting for the download to finish..
in fact if you disconnect your internet right now, I can show u where's the sgforums logo picture and the sgforums background picture as well as the stupid picture at the top right corner which shows 6 black n white pple are in your comp..
likewise, youtube essentially downloads flash (flv) data into your computer. you can actually watch youtube clips offline with an flv player.
so in other words, you ARE downloading illegally by watching pirated stuff online.. its just THAT much harder to catch.. unless they walk to ur computer and physically use your keyboard n mouse to find the data.. or they can just take ur computer away..
Computer Science To transmit (data) in real time, especially over the Internet.
Ref: American Psychological Association (APA):
stream. (n.d.). The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Retrieved August 30, 2007, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stream -
Technically, same. But our laws say another thing. Haha. I don't know why.Originally posted by Vigelic:actually wrong.. streaming and downloading are one and the same thing.. i think i already said this in an earlier page of this thread but nvm i'll repeat..
when something streams, it is downloaded to your computer and your computer plays it immediately instead of waiting for the download to finish..
in fact if you disconnect your internet right now, I can show u where's the sgforums logo picture and the sgforums background picture as well as the stupid picture at the top right corner which shows 6 black n white pple are in your comp..
likewise, youtube essentially downloads flash (flv) data into your computer. you can actually watch youtube clips offline with an flv player.
so in other words, you ARE downloading illegally by watching pirated stuff online..
Computer Science To transmit (data) in real time, especially over the Internet.
Ref: American Psychological Association (APA):
stream. (n.d.). The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition. Retrieved August 30, 2007, from Dictionary.com website: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/stream