What are ur expectation for the 4th university
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The title of this thread is "What are your expectations of the 4th university?"
The debate that you see here serves to justify the existence of this university.
When there are ignoramuses who barge in here and claim that:
1) "Your basic assumption is that poly students do not get an equal opportunity to enter university. This assumption is invalid from the onset."
2) "Our education policy is geared towards making poly a viable route to uni...."
3) "If that choice will serve as a disadvantage to their future career, they should have very well thought of going to JC so they can go to university more easily"
then these bunch must be corrected. -
super sian when they are not helping much. So of reply off topic de. Omg, wat am i gonna do?
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to TS:
(1) i hope 4th uni is in town area too.. like SMU.. den the girls go school all dress pretty pretty den c liao shiok.. not like ntu nus.. all like go market.. esp hall residents.. though the girls wear fbt good la haha..
(2) jokes aside, i hope the 4th uni pays more attention to the needs of arts students, because NUS FASS is just a dumping ground, NTU is all biz and engine, and SMU is all econs and biz and stuff.. so the arts students like interested in geog la, lit la etc etc v limited choice..
(3) in addition to paying more attn to arts students, of course TS can seriously raise the issue to MOE regarding this much much flame war-ed more-jc-den-poly-students point, though the MOE @ss-hol3s will give you no more information than what you have read here from our proposition and opposition, desperately saying they are increasing the number of poly students who can get in. Just to point out to Eikei, that one of the simplest things to do in life is for the govt to smoke the people with numbers. Stats are PURE PURE bs.. I guarantee you that.. and links and quotes are crap too, don't believe me? click here, http://home.insight.rr.com/crispco/crap/crap.jpg
(4) Last but not least why not raise the issue of our loss of local talents? all the foreign influx of students from Malaysia, Indonesia, CHINA, ROBBING the place of our loved friends, be they poly or JC, of a place in uni.. i know, of course, that foreign talents serve an important role in creating jobs for our people blah blah blah, but the bottomline remains that every year only got 4000 slots for entry, and increase in number of foreign students means less locals.. how i know 4000? click here http://home.insight.rr.com/crispco/crap/crap.jpg of course i don't, it's just an example. seriously.. the presence of a 4th uni will do so so so much in retaining Singaporean students here.. so many times I've heard Singaporean students not having a place in uni here, have to go overseas.. so chee cham.. not say A'lvl student easier to go in uni means 100% go in.. (a small and gentle reminder to Rock^Star) and of course the relatively higher number of poly students who have to go overseas(a small and gentle reminder to Ashearo too).
well i think thats what i have to offer for TS.
As for rock^star, lets have a simple assumption. say MOE agrees with you. ok steady la.. must be fair.. 50% of uni students must be poly, 50% JC.. in that case, nobody is going to go jc le what.. alvl+degree confirm less money than dip+degree.. but you know what, I agree with you that MOE cock up.. let jc people go uni easier. there is no denial in that. but why this happens is the exact reason that ashearo has been saying, that alvl cert sux.. cannot go out work.. when MOE developed the curriculum for alvl, they purposely want put water let alvl students go in easier liao.. then people like rock^star finds it unjustified and points it out, than govt let more poly ppl go in.. Unless you want a MAJOR revamp, wipe out the entire JC system, burn down all 16,17 JCs(then no more pretty girls in uniform), OR you want close all polys,(which will mean no pretty girls wearing mini skirts), the only PATHETIC solution to keeping both jc and poly is to maintain the way it is now, keeping the entry rate higher for JC than for poly, that way we can have the bloody nerds doing all the thinking, and the more project based and more hands-on power people doing the dirty work. -
Purpledragon, nice inputs.
The key word is "merit". Entrance should be based on that. Allowing JC students the easier path of entry simply because their A level certs are worthless justifies nothing.
Those A level students who fail to make it to uni can then choose poly as an alternative.
Burning down of JCs may sound a tad too drastic but I get your point. Both systems should be kept as they allow students a choice of curriculum and culture. After all, one needs Science subjects to go on to be doctors and arts, to be lawyers etc.
As to relgn, I regret that you have seen our inputs as "nothing to the topic". However, in retrospect, one can expect this university to be up there with likes of NUS, NTU and SMU. Anything less would reflect the failure of this govt. Expect tie ups with foreign universities to quickly raise its regional reputation.
My $0.02 worth -
totally agree with rock^star that merit is the most impt thing.. and moe choosing to let more jc students go in is just using a wrong solution to cover up the wrong decision in the past, which was to set up the curriculum of JCs in such a way.. but now that the wrong has been done, the way with the least damage and cost, but sadly still not justifiable, is to let more of JC ppl go in and blindly hope that the better poly students can secure a place for themselves..
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purpledragon84, thanks for your spendid input. i will keep in mind the suggestion u gave and raise it up to the moe.
keep the good comment coming in. -
bumpz!!!!
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I frankly think the chase for the paper is getting abit too much on people . Doesn't matter whether JC or poly students get the priority entry , a fourth Singaporean University won't make your life better. Ai yo....JC vs Poly again....this makes me feel sorry for all of you grumbling blindly for a piece of paper without thinking further about what a university education should bring you.
The fourth university will be very new and unestablished - so you will have people complaining that their degrees are worthless . SMU , the third university, is still not established in terms of its speciality or expertise it can offer - so what if they have coutelle system- still the tag SMU is not that great - at rank 401-500 in the world ranking system.
It becomes NUS>NTU>SMU>Fourth University.
The only way it could make a niche for itself is to focus on skills training rather than the traditional arts or business stream. More like an upgraded polytechnic rather than a university which means more work attachments in the 2nd and final years of the degree to bring an advantage for future careers.
My idea is that they should move some skills like in allied health sciences into the fourth university i.e. radiotherapy, ultrasound, occupational therapy, physiotherapy speech pathology, . I know that nanyang poly have diploma courses in those requiring A levels . And maybe allow a degree in Chinese Medicine or maybe even epidemiology/environmental health/ advanced nursing courses . Science stream wise - they could focus on medical physics , geographical information systems, applied statistics and operations research, or actuarial science. Business streams- maybe banking and finance , economics, actuarial science, financial mathematics and accountancy ONLY - no general business admin stream. Make it compulsory in Business Streams to do a dual major or something. They could also offer dual degrees or conversion stream post graduate courses.
Another idea is to make everyone who enter do some generic courses, not attached to their degree, in the first year, i.e. mathematics (single and multivariable calculus with linear algebra) , statistics (basic to advanced, using SAS/STATA/SPSS/Minitab) , research (how to write a research proposal), IT skills ( database in mysql, operating systems- linux ,web design, and programming, like php , python etc - something more original and uses open source software) and business english courses (how to do a business plan , how to write a proposal) across the board - so people can decide to switch streams.
They could also throw in optional language courses , like Spanish, Italian, French, Japanese , German , Mandarin, Malay, Indonesian that could be recognised as accreditation for translation diplomas. So at least every single graduate ends up multilingual instead of just bilingual which widens career options.
For the final year, they should have one solid original research/business project relevant to their degree and a year to do it .All students have to contribute what they learn by formulating a business/research proposal, a business/research plan OR they can implement an idea to contribute to the community. No group work. Alternatively (especially for those in allied health sciences), they can opt to publish a paper in a peer reviewed journal or local professional journals , i.e. Singapore Nurses' Journal, Singapore Medical Journal etc, under supervision. This is to add to their CVs. The final year project will end up turning people away who just want a degree for a degree's sake and money, not for expanding their future interests and building a foundation for a career pathway .
Throughout the whole degree, the University should encourage students who written up good essays to publish to help them in their career . And it helps to get rejected from peer reviewed journals because they would tell you what's wrong with your paper and from my experience, they can be blunt as well . Also from my own experience, publications get you into alot of doors nationally and internationally. It shows that the person who published has good written communication skills and can think critically. Not only that, it hikes up the ranking of the university by the papers published in peer reviewed journals.
Something graduates can use to get into a world wide market as well as the local market . This will provide a better advantage rather than to compete against the 3 local universities. -
We also must include how well will poly students perform in Uni. Since poly students have a less rigorous timetable than JC students (in particular H3 JC students), do you think poly students will be able to increase their 'mugging level' so that they are on par with JC students?
From my observation, JC students especially H3/S paper students have the advantage of most of the level 1 courses in uni and most poly students do not have this advantage. I take chemistry course in NUS and I have poly friends. They always encounter difficulty trying to understand what the lecturers say because the are not familiar with the concept while A level students have no/less difficulty understanding the concept because they have learned the basic.
If you think there is some unfairness, please think again. The playing field will level up in Uni. People will only care about your highest degree and the results from this highest degree. No one will care about your poly diploma if you have bachelor degree.
It all depends on how hard-working you are. If you are poly students entering Uni, you must work even harder in order to be on par with A level students. If students fail to catch up, he will just fail and have to re-take the same module again, delay one year from graduation or even drop-out because the CAP has been affected badly.
And by the way, I have seen poly students going into NUS with Sembcorp scholarship. I guess there is no much difference between poly and JC now. -
Networking is a consideration.Originally posted by FireIce:if singapore unis relli so good, so world-class, why ministers sons and dotters all send to overseas uni?
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I hope it will be more of an art school tho....
Fine arts, Graphic design, Interior design, Photography.......................
very limited here -
I feel that the criteria is bloody ridiculous for local Diploma holders to get in local University.
Lets take a look at the GPAs.
The Total 4.0
So from a Polytechnic point of view 80% of 4.0 is 3.2...
So people that have GPAs of 3.2 may not have straights As... but they have an OVERALL results of A/DIST...
But how many people who scored 80% actually get in?
While straight A, A'Levels students are guranteed to get in...
Another thing is... they freaking calculate O'Levels results in... does this increase our chances? NO, it decreases out chances... It only means that students that were able to go JC in the 1st place that went to choose Poly instead are able to enter University. It doesn't give people a fresh start.
Not to mention Poly modules are accumulative thruout the 3 years, you dun make it good the 1st year, you can't get in Uni liao. Its not like you can chiong for 3 - 4 months and get 1 stream of straight As... -
bumpz
what would actually attract u to enroll into 4th uni?
E.g... type of course offered?
admission requirement?
teaching method?
skill ?
programme?
COme let;s discuss
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to make a mark as a fourth university, it has to be the best. It must aim to outbeat the other three universities. It should not be a place for 'reject-tees'..although I can assume it might be for the initial stages. In other words, since we're going to open up a fourth university to increase uni enrollment, why not attract the best? It would 'free up' places in the other universities, and allow more people, poly or otherwise to come in. I know it sounds like we're going to drop the standards of the 3 Unis just for this new baby, but I feel to move up as an education hub, certainly we would not want to build a 4th uni just to cater to poly students? It might backfire, possibly.Originally posted by relgn:bumpz
what would actually attract u to enroll into 4th uni?
E.g... type of course offered?
admission requirement?
teaching method?
skill ?
programme?
COme let;s discuss
We have 2 comprehensive universities, and a management Uni.. let's look for good scope, a liberal arts college is a good idea, i think singaporeans may not accept the idea initially, but i think there are certain tangible benefits to try to bring in this system into Singapore. Just like how we broke the mould and brought in SMU - modelled after the US college system.
Admission criteria still has to be rigourous - accept those who can excel in life, for i think that is a better yard stick that those who can excel in books. What do I mean by excel in life? Look upon their other strengths, like perhaps a budding entreprenuer.. etc. Even though all 3 publicly-funded unis say they have a discretionary admissions criteria, ultimately grades are still important. Let's try to shift away from that, let's move towards getting truely vibrant and creative personality. Afterall, the future lies in the creative economy. Having said that, it's pretty much easier said than done
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Type of course, yar.... I want a more specialized degreeOriginally posted by relgn:bumpz
what would actually attract u to enroll into 4th uni?
E.g... type of course offered?
admission requirement?
teaching method?
skill ?
programme?
COme let;s discuss 
Admission requirement? Slightly lower than NUS. This will allow more poly student to enter.
Teaching method? I want the lecture-based. PBL is a NONO for me. -
bumpz...
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Foreign talent is another reason why poly hard to get in
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I would like to see you slog 3-4 mths and obtain a stream of straight As. A levels are not O levels. A levels are a huge leap from O levels. You cannot study in the last minute. There are so many people who slog for the 2 whole years yet their results suck and they cannot make it into university. Getting ABC is already difficult for many people. And frankly speaking, ABC most likely cannot get someone into the course of his choice. True enough many A level students enter university, but a lot of times they are thrown into a course that is not of their top preference.Originally posted by Ayukat:
I feel that the criteria is bloody ridiculous for local Diploma holders to get in local University.
Lets take a look at the GPAs.
The Total 4.0
So from a Polytechnic point of view 80% of 4.0 is 3.2...
So people that have GPAs of 3.2 may not have straights As... but they have an OVERALL results of A/DIST...
But how many people who scored 80% actually get in?
While straight A, A'Levels students are guranteed to get in...
Another thing is... they freaking calculate O'Levels results in... does this increase our chances? NO, it decreases out chances... It only means that students that were able to go JC in the 1st place that went to choose Poly instead are able to enter University. It doesn't give people a fresh start.
Not to mention Poly modules are accumulative thruout the 3 years, you dun make it good the 1st year, you can't get in Uni liao. Its not like you can chiong for 3 - 4 months and get 1 stream of straight As...
If you want a really fresh start, then go to an overseas university. You should know everything counts here. -
having gone thru the jc system, I think it's only fair to agree with Ashearo.. the statistics would prove last minute mugging is not going to bring you a stream of As...more like Cs and Ds.Originally posted by Ashearo:I would like to see you slog 3-4 mths and obtain a stream of straight As. A levels are not O levels. A levels are a huge leap from O levels. You cannot study in the last minute. There are so many people who slog for the 2 whole years yet their results suck and they cannot make it into university. Getting ABC is already difficult for many people. And frankly speaking, ABC most likely cannot get someone into the course of his choice. True enough many A level students enter university, but a lot of times they are thrown into a course that is not of their top preference.
If you want a really fresh start, then go to an overseas university. You should know everything counts here.
If anyone said you can slack for 1.5 yrs in JC and get your act together in the last few months, then he's probably a genius to begin with, or terribly lucky. The amount of content covered in 2 years, for 4 subjects (for example), is over whelming.
I understand, of course, that in poly screwing up a semester with Bs and Cs would probably mean you're out of the running to go to a local uni.. i'm not here to say it's not tough.. each route has it's own unique difficulties. -
I dun hav to slog for 3-4 months. I always study 1 day before the exam and get A/DIST.Originally posted by Ashearo:I would like to see you slog 3-4 mths and obtain a stream of straight As. A levels are not O levels. A levels are a huge leap from O levels. You cannot study in the last minute. There are so many people who slog for the 2 whole years yet their results suck and they cannot make it into university. Getting ABC is already difficult for many people. And frankly speaking, ABC most likely cannot get someone into the course of his choice. True enough many A level students enter university, but a lot of times they are thrown into a course that is not of their top preference.
If you want a really fresh start, then go to an overseas university. You should know everything counts here. Most of the time anyway. And if you're going to say thats becoz Polytechnic modules are easy... Well, just to say I am just one of those odd people that can pull off stunts like this. I seen people who study 3 years, get a Diploma, and still dunno what the hell they are studying about. 
And I can say its quite common.
And bloody freaking hell...
I am IBM Certified... and NUS doesn't want mi... WTF is this?!!!! -
that would mean you prob got a good GPA... and if you applied for engine or computing... don't see why NUS would reject you?Originally posted by Ayukat:I dun hav to slog for 3-4 months. I always study 1 day before the exam and get A/DIST. Most of the time anyway. And if you're going to say thats becoz Polytechnic modules are easy... Well, just to say I am just one of those odd people that can pull off stunts like this. I seen people who study 3 years, get a Diploma, and still dunno what the hell they are studying about. And I can say its quite common.
And bloody freaking hell...
I am IBM Certified... and NUS doesn't want mi... WTF is this?!!!! -
Yes, I did apply for Computing...Originally posted by sir sickolot II:that would mean you prob got a good GPA... and if you applied for engine or computing... don't see why NUS would reject you?
I topped the class too... but oni with 3.3...
See how ridiculous it is, u can top ur class... certified developer... and u can get rejected... -
I think they should equalise admissions with working experience.Originally posted by Ayukat:Yes, I did apply for Computing...
I topped the class too... but oni with 3.3...
See how ridiculous it is, u can top ur class... certified developer... and u can get rejected...
I think this might open the whole JC vs Poly crap again. However, the 3 other universities focus on your whole darn academic 'career' . Why don't they add working experience or certification to the whole weightage instead of cutting off students who are not perpectual straight A students for the fourth university. You might actually GET more ideas from students who are working as well and who are not always a career straight A student. -
I must say that NUS can be a place with retards masquerading as adminstrators and admissions office staff.Originally posted by Ayukat:Yes, I did apply for Computing...
I topped the class too... but oni with 3.3...
See how ridiculous it is, u can top ur class... certified developer... and u can get rejected... -
Personally, I hope the 4th university is a liberal arts college.
Look, we don't even have subjects dealing with Middle East/African Studies. Those are the key areas of focus in the next 10-30 years, and we're quite unprepared.
