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LoginSwedish government making religious Indoctrination illegal.
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From: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/andrew_brown/2007/10/gods_honest_truth.html
The idea is for Kids to decide/choose for themselves when they are old and mature enough (i.e. after they've sufficiently developed their critical thinking skills) instead of indoctrination and brainwashing.
The Swedish government has announced plans to clamp down hard on religious education. It will soon become illegal even for private faith schools to teach religious doctrines as if they were true. In an interesting twist on the American experience, prayer will remain legal in schools - after all, it has no truth value. But everything that takes place on the curriculum's time will have to be secular. "Pupils must be protected from every sort of fundamentalism," said the minister for schools, Jan Björklund.
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Demanding that Muslim, Jewish, and Catholic schools stop teaching their own religions as if they were true, which is essentially the Swedish position, looks an impossible task for a British government. But I think it might also be a necessary one. It is certainly the only way to discover whether the parents of such schools really want the "ethos" or the pseudo-factual beliefs and what exactly it is that the people who fund them think they are buying with their money.
- Andrew BrownFrom: http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/andrew_brown/2007/10/gods_honest_truth.html
Edited by Phorum Noob 24 Dec `07, 1:36PM
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Originally posted by Deino:i'm against this......
the reason being is that the swedish government is claiming that religion is not true.....can they disprove it?
i say religion is wot makes kids more obidient....Can you disprove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist?
http://www.venganza.org/
Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
http://www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/humour/ipu.htm
There can be infinite of imaginable things that can never be proven or disproven. If we base our believes on 'invisible' un-falsifiable things, we can believe in anything as long as its emotionally appealling. This leads to ignorance.Edited by Phorum Noob 24 Dec `07, 1:45PM
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Originally posted by stupidissmart:Muslim say they true, jew say they true, hindu say they true, christian say they true. Then teach all ya ?
please lah.....i'm not telling them to teach all......open your mind......just let the kids be thought about religion.....dun take it away from them but also teach open mindedness in school lah......
that way will be balanced for the kid wat......it all comes down to wot they teach in school is wot affects the student most.....friends influence a student more than its family.......
if you wan teach all than go religious studies subject lah.....
my point is how can the swedish government take away culture from its people?
they cannot disprove god's or a god's existance......its as same as not accepting that there is a possibility of a higher being....and in turn the possibilities in science.......
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Originally posted by Phorum Noob:Can you disprove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist?
http://www.venganza.org/
Or the Invisible Pink Unicorn?
http://www.palmyra.demon.co.uk/humour/ipu.htm
There can be infinite of imaginable things that can never be proven or disproven. If we base our believes on 'invisible' un-falsifiable things, we can believe in anything as long as its emotionally appealling. This leads to ignorance.not believing in possibilities is ignorance......
everywhere you go......you are thought the idea of possibilities....
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Originally posted by Deino:not believing in possibilities is ignorance......
everywhere you go......you are thought the idea of possibilities....Acknowledging them as JUST nothing more than mere possibilities is ok.
"Believing" in unfounded possibilities as real IS ignorance.
The key world is skepticism.Edited by Phorum Noob 24 Dec `07, 1:55PM
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I currently believe that any gods out there most likely does not exist; i.e. have negligible probability of existing. I do not believe in any gods for the same reason that you don’t believe in the existance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or other religion’s gods and other supernatural beings they claim to exist.
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CARL SAGAN'S BALONEY DETECTION KIT
http://users.tpg.com.au/users/tps-seti/baloney.html
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Originally posted by Phorum Noob:I currently believe that any gods out there most likely does not exist; i.e. have negligible probability of existing. I do not believe in any gods for the same reason that you don't believe in the existance of the Flying Spaghetti Monster or the Invisible Pink Unicorn, or other religion's gods and other supernatural beings they claim to exist.
i think i got your answer already......since you say that a god would most likely not exist, you are saying that there is still a "likeliness" that they may exist....
Edited by Deino 24 Dec `07, 2:07PM
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My reply is implied in my answer to you.
Yes, I would believe in the existance of that particular god/being if he shows himself to me, and that when I wasn't drunk or anything...etc. Why not.
Weather I would kao-tao to it is another thing. Is it worthy of my worship?
For instance, I can never worship with my heart a hell-creator who would torture people for eternality for a mere disbelieve (or anything); and accept that it can still be a good/benevolent 'god'.
Actually come to think of it, being a coward myself, I might actually do so for self-presevation sake!!!
If there's to be a god that I can believe, it'll be the Naturalistic Pantheist God:
http://www.pantheism.net/Edited by Phorum Noob 24 Dec `07, 2:23PM
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Originally posted by Deino:i think i got your answer already......since you say that a god would most likely not exist, you are saying that there is still a "likeliness" that they may exist....
Yup...as long as that particular god is defined without contradiction (i.e. Free Will and an Omniscent All powerful universe creator IS a contradiction)...
It might exist, but you can never prove or disprove...i.e. you can never truely know.
Hence there's no reason to believe.
It remains a negligible possibility such that I should not spend too much of my time in worrying about.Edited by Phorum Noob 17 Jan `08, 9:16PM
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Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
My reply is implied in my answer to you.
Yes, I would believe in the existance of that particular god/being if he shows himself to me, and that when I wasn't drunk or anything...etc. Why not.
Weather I would kao-tao to it is another thing. Is it worthy of my worship?
For instance, I can never worship with my heart a hell-creator who would torture people for eternality for a mere disbelieve (or anything); and accept that it can still be a good/benevolent 'god'.
Actually come to think of it, being a coward myself, I might actually do so for self-presevation sake!!!
[b]If there's to be a god that I can believe, it'll be the Naturalistic Pantheist God:
http://www.pantheism.net/[/b]For me, my answer is "fark it lah".
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Erm... just to clarify a point... prayer is legal in American schools.
Christian fundies like to claim that it's banned but it's not.
What is banned is school led prayer.
So a teacher cannot say, "class, now let us bow our heads in prayer."
A coach cannot say, "let us pray before the game."
The basis for this is the Establishment clause of the US Constitution which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...." Since teachers are public schools are government institutions, they are bound by that law.
However, students are free to pray whenever they want.
And of course, this does not apply at all to private schools.
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Originally posted by Phaze:Erm... just to clarify a point... prayer is legal in American schools.
Christian fundies like to claim that it's banned but it's not.
What is banned is school led prayer.
So a teacher cannot say, "class, now let us bow our heads in prayer."
A coach cannot say, "let us pray before the game."
The basis for this is the Establishment clause of the US Constitution which states that "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...." Since teachers are public schools are government institutions, they are bound by that law.
However, students are free to pray whenever they want.
And of course, this does not apply at all to private schools.I would like it better if their government can come up with a law to prevent religious heckling that a religion is true unless the religion can come up with actual proof.
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Originally posted by Deino:i'm against this......
the reason being is that the swedish government is claiming that religion is not true.....can they disprove it?
i say religion is wot makes kids more obidient....Absolutely true, a few of my cousins attend Jewish schools and there the kids are so insanely obedient it's almost creepy.
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Originally posted by Phorum Noob:
My reply is implied in my answer to you.
Yes, I would believe in the existance of that particular god/being if he shows himself to me, and that when I wasn't drunk or anything...etc. Why not.
Weather I would kao-tao to it is another thing. Is it worthy of my worship?
For instance, I can never worship with my heart a hell-creator who would torture people for eternality for a mere disbelieve (or anything); and accept that it can still be a good/benevolent 'god'.
Actually come to think of it, being a coward myself, I might actually do so for self-presevation sake!!!
[b]If there's to be a god that I can believe, it'll be the Naturalistic Pantheist God:
http://www.pantheism.net/[/b]It's not whether a God is worthy of your worship, that's like an ant asking whether you're worthy of it's attention. The question is are YOU worthy of that particular god?
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