LTA knew about Circle Line danger long ago
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here's a few angles i would like to direct you to look at this tragic event from.
remember the LTA engineer who committed suicide n killed his son too? he was from this worksite. In his suicide note, he had said something bad was going to happen at the site. And his prediction came true. His daughter, upon hearing about the nicoll highway collapse, told her mother "mommy, daddy's prediction came true"
early in the morning about 9am, the workers were told to leave stop work after a foreman heard sounds and declared the area dangerous.
now these are very advanced warning signs. how come LTA keeps insisting that the only warnings they would have had would be about 10 to 15 mins b4 the actual event happening?
And here is one more piece of very damning evidence.
The construction of the MRT tunnels uses a method of injecting cement called grouting.
Grouting, does not require cement mixer trucks(the ones with the rotating drum) on the surface.
So... we all know one such truck fell in. WHY was it even there? opinion from a professional engineer, who works in the ISO QA sector, and who has done worksite and shipyard safety inspections for many years, told me, that cement mixer was there, PRECISELY to reinforce and stablise the structure. WHY would that be done? BECAUSE LTA ALREADY has warnings that the site is unstable. The fact that the cement mixer is there, puts paid to LTA's lie that they would only have had any warnings 10 - 15 mins. The truth is, they have had warnings for quite some time already. But instead of a complete halt in the work, they choose to continue even while they tried to remedy the problem.
So many warning signs, so man damning evidence. Come on LTA... lets stop the cover ups... only when the truth is heard, that lessons may be learnt. -
killed his son?? where u get the information from?
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there was a case sometime back. an LTA engineer... who was suffering from depression. He strangled his son, then jumped from a block of HDB. it was all over the news...Originally posted by ^sylvia^:killed his son?? where u get the information from? -
i rather close my eyes and forget about the occurence of such an event than to look at it .... becos we cant change anything. if lessons can be learnt, we're not the ones learning it anyway...Originally posted by HENG@:here's a few angles i would like to direct you to look at this tragic event from.
remember the LTA engineer who committed suicide n killed his son too? he was from this worksite. In his suicide note, he had said something bad was going to happen at the site. And his prediction came true. His daughter, upon hearing about the nicoll highway collapse, told her mother "mommy, daddy's prediction came true"
early in the morning about 9am, the workers were told to leave stop work after a foreman heard sounds and declared the area dangerous.
now these are very advanced warning signs. how come LTA keeps insisting that the only warnings they would have had would be about 10 to 15 mins b4 the actual event happening?
And here is one more piece of very damning evidence.
The construction of the MRT tunnels uses a method of injecting cement called grouting.
Grouting, does not require cement mixer trucks(the ones with the rotating drum) on the surface.
So... we all know one such truck fell in. WHY was it even there? opinion from a professional engineer, who works in the ISO QA sector, and who has done worksite and shipyard safety inspections for many years, told me, that cement mixer was there, PRECISELY to reinforce and stablise the structure. WHY would that be done? BECAUSE LTA ALREADY has warnings that the site is unstable. The fact that the cement mixer is there, puts paid to LTA's lie that they would only have had any warnings 10 - 15 mins. The truth is, they have had warnings for quite some time already. But instead of a complete halt in the work, they choose to continue even while they tried to remedy the problem.
So many warning signs, so man damning evidence. Come on LTA... lets stop the cover ups... only when the truth is heard, that lessons may be learnt.
*puts on shades*
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you know what i've been wondering about?
ALL construction sites are full of people... now, here's a fricken MAJOR cave-in.. there were (thankfully) only 4 people who went missing...
ask the traders in Arab St and Bussorah St... their shops are all cracked up and held together by props and all that... (no danger remember?)
stuff like that does not happen accidentally...
any engineer worth his salt will tell you that all projects have a certain safety margin, that is, if they are building a bridge to handle 300 tonnes of stuff, they'll build it to withstand 600 tonnes of stuff...
what happened here? -
The one on the engineer who comitted suicide......Isn't it a bit ......
Lack of evidence, I should say. He died because he want to tell others about the danger?
You said LTA had warnings. Looking at what you have said, let's look at it from the other perspective. Wasn't LTA trying to prevent the incident from happening by reinforcing the structure.
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yup agree with the bear and nelstar
guess we should really let this matter over..
really sad to hear this -
the engineer who committed suicide:Originally posted by Parka: The one on the engineer who comitted suicide......Isn't it a bit ......
Lack of evidence, I should say. He died because he want to tell others about the danger?
You said LTA had warnings. Looking at what you have said, let's look at it from the other perspective. Wasn't LTA trying to prevent the incident from happening by reinforcing the structure.
i din say he died to tell others about the danger. He committed suicide due to depression. He had depression because of the problems appearing at the worksite. As an engineer, if he says something very bad will happen, it means that something was very seriously wrong at the worksite. I'm not saying his death has anything to do with the collapse. im quoting what he said, as evidence that even b4 his death, there were already signs that something was wrong.
LTA:
LTA was trying to remedy the problem yes. but they did that while continuing the construction work. wouldn't this disturb the soil further b4 the problem has been completely remedied? instead of forcing a stop work to focus on the problem alone, they, due to a fear of falling behind schedule, tried to continue digging even b4 the problem was rememdied. this smacks of poor safety awareness and standards. so while they WERE trying to prevent the incident, they were als cancelling out their own efforts by digging further. -
sorry maybe im too sick or what.. but could you please explain what your trying to say?Originally posted by HENG@:the engineer who committed suicide:
he killed himself because he knew that the worksite was going horribly wrong. and he wanted out of the project because he felt he couldn't handle it. thats the reason he died. but, it IS evidence that as early back as b4 his death, there were indications that something was very seriously wrong
LTA:
LTA was trying to remedy the problem yes. but they did that while continuing the construction work. wouldn't this disturb the soil further b4 the problem has been completely remedied? instead of forcing a stop work to focus on the problem alone, they, due to a fear of falling behind schedule, tried to continue digging even b4 the problem was rememdied. this smacks of poor safety awareness and standards. so while they WERE trying to prevent the incident, they were als cancelling out their own efforts by digging further. -
i'm with Heng@
if LTA had beforehand know abt the dangers with the structure. they should have closed it and solve the problem b4 allowing construction works to continue.
what they had done instead has led to innocent lost of lives.
The truth should be revealed. -
i've edited my post for clarity. hope its easier to understand.Originally posted by ^sylvia^:sorry maybe im too sick or what.. but could you please explain what your trying to say? -
thanks i understand what your trying to say nowOriginally posted by HENG@:the engineer who committed suicide:
i din say he died to tell others about the danger. He committed suicide due to depression. He had depression because of the problems appearing at the worksite. As an engineer, if he says something very bad will happen, it means that something was very seriously wrong at the worksite. I'm not saying his death has anything to do with the collapse. im quoting what he said, as evidence that even b4 his death, there were already signs that something was wrong.
LTA:
LTA was trying to remedy the problem yes. but they did that while continuing the construction work. wouldn't this disturb the soil further b4 the problem has been completely remedied? instead of forcing a stop work to focus on the problem alone, they, due to a fear of falling behind schedule, tried to continue digging even b4 the problem was rememdied. this smacks of poor safety awareness and standards. so while they WERE trying to prevent the incident, they were als cancelling out their own efforts by digging further. -
u're welcome.Originally posted by ^sylvia^:thanks i understand what your trying to say now
heh i read my own post then realise i also dunno wad im trying to say so i edited it. -
Originally posted by HENG@:the engineer who committed suicide:
he killed himself because he knew that the worksite was going horribly wrong. and he wanted out of the project because he felt he couldn't handle it. thats the reason he died. but, it IS evidence that as early back as b4 his death, there were indications that something was very seriously wrong
LTA:
LTA was trying to remedy the problem yes. but they did that while continuing the construction work. wouldn't this disturb the soil further b4 the problem has been completely remedied? instead of forcing a stop work to focus on the problem alone, they, due to a fear of falling behind schedule, tried to continue digging even b4 the problem was rememdied. this smacks of poor safety awareness and standards. so while they WERE trying to prevent the incident, they were als cancelling out their own efforts by digging further. He committed suicide saying that something is going to go wrong is......evidence?
For the LTA, instead of saying that they failed to meet the safety standards, I think it's more appropriate to say they are incapable to handling the situation. -
What good is it to raise fingers of accusations based on rumours and deductions?Originally posted by HENG@:the engineer who committed suicide:
i din say he died to tell others about the danger. He committed suicide due to depression. He had depression because of the problems appearing at the worksite. As an engineer, if he says something very bad will happen, it means that something was very seriously wrong at the worksite. I'm not saying his death has anything to do with the collapse. im quoting what he said, as evidence that even b4 his death, there were already signs that something was wrong.
LTA:
LTA was trying to remedy the problem yes. but they did that while continuing the construction work. wouldn't this disturb the soil further b4 the problem has been completely remedied? instead of forcing a stop work to focus on the problem alone, they, due to a fear of falling behind schedule, tried to continue digging even b4 the problem was rememdied. this smacks of poor safety awareness and standards. so while they WERE trying to prevent the incident, they were als cancelling out their own efforts by digging further.
The deed is done. Let the lid be sealed and the coffin be buried.
There's nothing more to worry about. LTA has already opened their own can of worms. Let the eyes of the beholders and their hearts to judge for themselves. -
okay.. heng@, i'm on your side anyway
i heard from news that LTA actually do know about soil loosen, but they did not take any action to it.
everything's too late now.. too late -
so.. i guess theres no point in blaming or accuse them now
hope they will be more capable in handling situations~ -
yes it is.Originally posted by Parka: He committed suicide saying that something is going to go wrong is......evidence?
For the LTA, instead of saying that they failed to meet the safety standards, I think it's more appropriate to say they are incapable to handling the situation.
u telling me that he, from that worksite, predicted something bad would happen, and that it troubled him so much that it led to him entering depression, and that something actually happened, is coincidence?
come on. he is a trained LTA engineer. he knows something was not right at the site. its not evidence?
u dun get it huh? its not the fact that he committed suicide, but rather, the fact that he actually DID say something would happen, that is the evidence that im pointing out. dun keep saying his suicide is not evidence, because that is missing the crux of what i am trying to say. -
rumors? its a fact that the engineer DID say something bad would happen, and he does have inside info about the site. Its like if your Defence minister suddenly packs his bags for australia and leaves hastily... it ain't a good thing.Originally posted by Nelstar:What good is it to raise fingers of accusations based on rumours and deductions?
The deed is done. Let the lid be sealed and the coffin be buried.
There's nothing more to worry about. LTA has already opened their own can of worms. Let the eyes of the beholders and their hearts to judge for themselves.
anyways the way i see it. LTA ain't so much worried about who is as fault as they are about making sure about how much of their incompetence is covered up. -
we have to blame them. and accuse themOriginally posted by ^sylvia^:so.. i guess theres no point in blaming or accuse them now
hope they will be more capable in handling situations~
for years they have been taking us for fools, doing things any way they like, with themselves as priorities. and these things heppen as a result. no longer should we stand for this kind of nonsense. we have to point fingers... to expose their lies... to show that the people will not lie down and be hood-winked. until we do that, there will be a next time. -
if there was danger, you do not try to "reinforce the structure" without telling people, not taking precautions, and endangering their own people, and users of the road...
worse, look at the mess they left on Arab Street and Bussorah Street.. and they insisted "everything was safe"...
the culture of covering up should be wiped out and not just given lip service in our society...
if there was indeed one, lives have been lost...Originally posted by Parka: The one on the engineer who comitted suicide......Isn't it a bit ......
Lack of evidence, I should say. He died because he want to tell others about the danger?
You said LTA had warnings. Looking at what you have said, let's look at it from the other perspective. Wasn't LTA trying to prevent the incident from happening by reinforcing the structure. -
Bah, it's a bad call...
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Originally posted by HENG@:yes it is.
u telling me that he, from that worksite, predicted something bad would happen, and that it troubled him so much that it led to him entering depression, and that something actually happened, is coincidence?
come on. he is a trained LTA engineer. he knows something was not right at the site. its not evidence?
u dun get it huh? its not the fact that he committed suicide, but rather, the fact that he actually DID say something would happen, that is the evidence that im pointing out. dun keep saying his suicide is not evidence, because that is missing the crux of what i am trying to say. Suicide is not evidence. Suicide, in this case, might be the result caused by the evidence.
And the evidence? -
hear hear...Originally posted by the Bear:if there was danger, you do not try to "reinforce the structure" without telling people, not taking precautions, and endangering their own people, and users of the road...
worse, look at the mess they left on Arab Street and Bussorah Street.. and they insisted "everything was safe"...
the culture of covering up should be wiped out and not just given lip service in our society...
if there was indeed one, lives have been lost...
i know many people would rather let the matter wash over, and leave any of the investigations to the govt. but in the past... that has often been the case... thats why things like that still happen.
u know u are part of this country too. much as u would like to roll over n mind your own business, if u dun play a pro-active part in making sure cover ups don't happen, soon there wun be any country for u to just roll over and mind your own business in. -
Are you going to sue them for that?Originally posted by HENG@:rumors? its a fact that the engineer DID say something bad would happen, and he does have inside info about the site. Its like if your Defence minister suddenly packs his bags for australia and leaves hastily... it ain't a good thing.
anyways the way i see it. LTA ain't so much worried about who is as fault as they are about making sure about how much of their incompetence is covered up.
are you going to raise a protest in city Hall and parade around the padang with banners writing " WE WANT APOLOGY FROM LTA"...?
if not I see too many unhappiness... and heard too much complains. if there's nothing done at all, keep me out of it..
*yawns and starts closing for workplace*