Originally posted by redDUST:

chiak pa siu eng ah....

like compare apples with rambutans, durians, mango, etc.....

Well aren't what the govt here doing the same?

We are just learning the govt's trick. So don't blame us.  

Actually I know since I have already done my own background research. Merely just would like to see if anyone else have done their own research.

I just find it that many Singaporeans are naive and are duped by the govt to think that other country's tax is a flat 30% or 40%.

We pay the lowest taxes?
Its more a lie.

Just wondering if others can fill up some gaps for me on income tax.

Our govt have always boasted that our income tax is one of the lowest in the world. And they always tell us that other countries like those in Europe, or Australia, have taxes like 30% or 40%.

But I wonder are we naive to think that that is the entire truth?

There are many aspects to consider:

Staggered tax scheme.

Those countries that are being compared to probably do have staggered tax levels like us. For example, if your taxable income is $20,000 then your tax at that level is 5%, only the top group will bear the max 30% or 40%.

I wonder if Singaporeans are naive to think that these countries income tax is a flat 30% or 40% on everyone.

Reliefs.

I also wonder if anyone thought about the possibility that other countries relief might be much higher than ours. Our reliefs are actually quite limited.

Parents relief is $3500 or $5000 (Our parents expenditure is only $291.67/mth or $416.67 /mth).

Wife relief (if not working) is $2000 (Our poor wife expenditure is only $166.67/mth)

These reliefs have been there since the 'beginning of time'. They have not been adjusted even though the cost of living has gone up so much over the years.

In other countries, their reliefs might be higher and may have many more types of reliefs that you can claim. At the end of the day, even though their tax is 30 or 40%, they might be paying lesser taxes than Singaporeans.

And they probably benefit more from the welfare given to citizens. And their welfare definitely beats what our govt gives to us.

Originally posted by eagle:

Fact:

Let's see.

1991 Election
1994 GST 3%
1997 Election -- probably testing citizens' reactions
2001 Election
2003 GST raise to 4%
2004 GST raise to 5%
2006 Election
2007 GST raised to 7%

Source:
http://www.elections.gov.sg/past_parliamentary.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goods_and_Services_Tax_(Singapore)

By the way, in case people haven't forgotten, PAP mentioned that their target GST is 10%. So if the people continue to be stupid, we will see GST raised to 10% AFTER the next election.

There are recent things I hear going around, that the PAP is secretly preparing to raise the GST final target further to 15%. Think about it, when its 15%. I think all of us will die under the suffocating cost of living.

The 'FT's? Save up $$$ and go home. Only Singaporeans will suffer.

To those who vote PAP coz of $$$ given out by the PAP. You have probably ONLY TWO elections left to change your stupid mindset before you are leeched dry.

Originally posted by eagle:

That few hundred dollars might be a lot to most of the 66.6% you know

PAP is definitely cultivating this inherent thought in people that if they loses the majority, along goes the money distribution. They have already shown their muscle in the potong pasir constituency; no win, no lift upgrade. Dangling a carrot only to that constituency during election, a carrot that will be funded by taxes from everyone of us... Wow...

I like to question this portion of giving $$$ during elections.

Or lift upgrade etc.

I question whether this is ONLY happening in Singapore, where taxpayers money are used to 'bribe' taxpayers themselves. It is so ridiculous to be using taxpayers monies to threaten the people into voting for PAP.

Why? BECAUSE PAP is NOT the Govt. In other countries, the parties have to raise their own funds for elections.

So are our Singaporeans who vote for PAP coz of those $$$, which are actually the people's $$$, downright stupid?

Originally posted by Lolarlolar:

hi,guys..sorries back from pub and drinking, not tat i want but mine motive of starting this thread is , from my soul  and for seek of my own breeds n prevsevserve  identity of singaporeans ..but i was bombarded left and rigtht by someone...grate that now i see some supporters..been a novice in this forum..but my heart is never a novice...say again i jsut wish  to help the needy n our own pple ...and there are more areas which the govt shoud help her own citizens...like..places/susidies for universicitiy /polyestitudents...hostpitalision.., sorries i  wnt zzzz liao...

I believe eagle sees things very objectively. He is neither not supporting, nor supporting you because your claims do not stand up to scrutiny. So I hope you understand that. I myself also see things objectively.

I do not hate the government. I just cannot tolerate their behavior because
I can see many things that they are doing for their own good at the expense of the people.

And I feel frustrated to see stupid countrymen selling their souls to the PAP becoz of a few hundred $$$, which the PAP will claim back anyway each time they raise the GST AFTER the elections.

But do not hate, because hatred blinds you and you are not able to convince nor persuade others to see your point of view because it becomes too personal. And then, you are not able to help influence others into changing their
mindset of always voting for the arrogant PAP NOT BECAUSE they support them, but because they think they have no choice

Originally posted by me_a_clone:

to a certain extent i agree with you that they are out to suck us dry. but if we throw PAP out of the game who can guarentee the stable economic that we are having now?

who can blame sgrean including me worshipping PAP like god when they use legalise vote buying methol by giing $ during election? the couple of hundred is worth alot for some families.  

You are simply falling into the trap of the PAP. LKY keeps saying that if you vote for the opposition the country will go into disarray because the opposition cannot govern as well as the PAP.

Whoever said that you should be voting PAP out? We are only saying that DO NOT give them the majority of the seats. Make them lose 1/3 or more of the parliament, and they will WAKE UP their idea.

If they don't wake up their idea, make them lose some more. And more. By that time, your so-called weak opposition would have built enough experience and know-how to be able to govern this country well (or maybe even better than the PAP).

If you guys, because of a miserable few hundred $$$, do not even give the opposition a chance to grow and keep this arrogant bunch of elitists in check, then don't blame anyone for your own plight, because you chose your own route to suffer continously by voting for the PAP because of that miserable $$$.

Originally posted by Atobe:

 

During Election 2006, when James Gomez apologise after realising that he had wrongly suggested that the Election Department officials may have misplacing some papers that he claimed he had submitted - LKY slammed him and the Worker's Party leaders for not doing more.

If an apology was not accepted for a wrong statement that affected the integrity of the Election Officials - should we now accept an apology from the Minister himself for an act of complacency in his rank and file for the escape of MSK ?

By the same standard of measure that LKY placed responsibility for the actions of subordinates - in holding the WP Leadership responsible - should we not similarly hold the leadership of this Government to be responsible for the actions of the rank and file that led to the escape of a person whom they have recognised to be a Category ONE threat to the security of Singapore ?

The beauty of this leadership is that they will only say things that are beneficial to them. But when a similar situation occurs that require them to act like what they accuse others of not doing, they will just pretend that this is not required.

Double standards, as always

Originally posted by ultranova3:

We are given the opportunity but few are willing to explore further in SMEs because of the high risk. It is common fact but we also need to realize that we can't depend too much on MNCs - MNCs can just choose to leave anytime and leave all of us jobsless.

 

You can't always jump to 'openning big company' unless you have capital. you should start small and expand slowly. Probably the job advertisement is for SME but at least if the company expands and you perform well, you will be rewarded (either bonus or promotion)

Its the attitude of the Singapore bosses (or Asian bosses for the matter)

I am now working in a US MNC, and I have very flexible hours and usually go home on time coz this company believes in you having a balanced life, which will in turn result in an increase in productivity. And I was in the top 20% of the performers last year

I know many of my friends in SMEs (or even local MNCs), that work super long hours and are squeezed till they are dry because the mentality of our Singapore bosses is that all workers should be milked dry in order to get as much $ value out of the worker as possible.

If you can finish a piece of work by Wed and NOT Fri as they expect you to do, they will make sure you are overloaded with other work from Thu to Fri so that they can milk you dry.

That's a very poor attitude of Singapore bosses. And so long as this poor attitude of blaming and milking the workers continue, our businesses cannot grow as we cannot attract really good talent who expect that Life is NOT JUST work.

Originally posted by eagle:

This is well said.
I'm on your side.

Supporting the policy is one thing, how it was handled by the government is another thing.

I think we both disagree with the implementation of the policy, NOT the policy itself.

This is a globalization era. We cannot shut ourselves in (coz we ultimately will suffer), BUT we should filter what comes in so that they are beneficial to the country and are NOT parasitic.

I know of many "FT"s that come here just to grab $$$ and go home. They have no gratitude to this country, and will leave at the 1st instance of trouble.

still waiting for Wong Kan Seng to step down.

That's what other ministers in other countries will do to take responsibility

To date, he has done the following instead:

• Pretend nothing happened
• No apology, instead blaming other people
• LKY said its our fault Mas Selamat escaped

Really no balls, and really bei paiseh.

And before anyone thinks I am against Foreign Talent, let me said I am not.

I believe the Foreign Talent Policy is good if and only if:

1. The Govt is more discerning on the criteria of a talent. Be more scrutinizing to ensure that we really get good people.
   
2. The citizens are looked after first and foremost

Now, the Foreign Talent policy is totally abused by this arrogant govt.

Originally posted by Ahm97sic:

An employer will always employ a worker if he or she thinks that he or she can do the job well at a pay that he or she thinks is affordable, reasonable or worthwhile and it does not matter to him or her that he or she is a Singaporean or FT.

So whether the employer employs a FT or Singaporean will depend on the government policies, the abilities of Singaporeans and FT. 

That's made even worse when you have indian "FT"s who are good at boasting but then later on, the company finds that these people can't do their job.

So what happens? A Singaporean who is capable of doing it is deprived.

The Govt can do something to help minimize such cases from happening, and not perform a full striptease whereby any tom dick or harry can come to Singapore and snatch jobs.

AND... pls edit your wrong mindset. This is NOT a corporation and this is NOT a market. This is A COUNTRY. A country has citizens whom the country should look after in the best interests of the country, the society, and the individual (of which the last is lacking very badly).

Citizens are NOT like FTs who have a second place to run to, or looking for the next place after treating Singapore as a stepping stone.

I fully believe that the PAP has gone atrociously arrogant, and that they should have a big and painful fall like Taiwanese KMT or Malaysia's BN, so that they wake up their freaking idea, and learn how to treat their citizens properly.

I cannot believe words from Goh Chok Tong who said that raising the GST is unpopular policy, but its ok, because Singaporeans will just forget and vote for the PAP come next election.

I can tell you, come next election, if the stupid PAP-supporters or cheapo Singaporeans (who get bought over coz of some stupid hundred dollar payout) vote for the PAP and let them win big again, the first thing they will do after that is to increase the GST to 10%.

My 2 cents worth.

The word "Foreign talent" has been abused consistently by the government over the years. Criterias have been lowered continuously over the years such that foreigners who are coming in are no longer 'talented', but are just, well, foreigners

Have seen so many sub-standard foreigners coming here, snatching a Singaporean's job, only to leave for greener pastures such as US, or other countries. We become a stepping stone, and inevitably, the ones that suffer are the Singaporeans who have no where to go.

Granted, we need foreign talent, but can we be more discerning of the word talent? Right now, any tom dick or harry is also considered a talent so long as he can command a pay of S$2,500 per month and above. What sort of talent is that?

And can we really be so sure that these people provide a skill that us Singaporeans cannot do? I see many Singaporeans get displaced from jobs that they probably excel in, because of some Indian FT that comes along and is better at boasting about his achievements, only for this FT to submit his resumes to other countries and leaving Singapore shortly after that.

Even USA has a new law to protect their own citizens (Thou shalt not hire a foreigner until thou can provide sufficient justification on why a US citizen cannot do the job). Why is our multi-million govt doing a full striptease (opening doors so widely that we are complete naked), and allowing people who have no principles or morals to come here, grab some gold, and then leave with the gold? And during this period, your own people suffer.

my 2 cents worth

Indeed, the teacher's actions were inappropriate, but is being inappropriate sufficient enough to sack someone? Wouldn't a warning be sufficient?

For those who defend the actions of sacking the teacher through the reason(excuse) of the kid feeling sorry for themselves (self-pity), I think its total crap.

Already, the standards of our education are dropping (I am not talking about academic results, I am talking about our morals), and you have people like these forumers who continue to think that by protecting the kids, giving them safe harbour (kids are forever never wrong because they are young), they are doing the kids good. You are the exact people that will result in kids becoming less and less able to take care of themselves.

For those who think the teacher should be sacked, let's see what you say about yourself when one day you get sacked because of a small matter (like taking home a pencil for example).

Oh ya, STOMP is rubbish and should be shut down.

Originally posted by hloc:

The slient is soooo eerie.....

stocks went back up for the few days. As I said in the PREVIOUS 2 THREADs, that dimwit goes into hiding whenever the market is good.

He waits for the next downtrend, then comes out to claim he is right, and that all of us who disagree with him are idiots, coolies, stupids, blah blah blah...

Life goes on, hloc, I agree fully with you

Originally posted by HyuugaNeji:

serious?

ok TS, go cancel and then sign up a new line with m1 or starhub.

just bear in mind they will blacklist you (at least for mobile services), but in the new age, we have M1 and Starhub who will gladly take you under their wing

Originally posted by nainex52:

Its not Singtels fault if u lost ur phone and someone used it to call overseas.
The only companies that pays for ur irresponsibility are Insurance firms.

U can always cut ur line and restore it. Just treat 500$ as a punishment. U'll remember ur lesson well.

The police does not affiliate themselves with minor crimes like theft of wallet w/o IC in side. U cant blame. Every police in the world prolly does that. Smart move. The chance of finding ur phone back and the culprit is nxt to zero. Even if it happened at school. Worse if u lost it in public.

If u tot abt shoplifting, the guards are hired to prevent that.

What crap is that?
$500 is punishment when someone lost his handphone and probably is under emotional trauma? When I lost my phone, M1 was really nice and really helped to take care of me. That's why till today I am with M1.

Seriously, as maurizo13 said, they can't do much if you refuse to pay.

My cousin had the lawyer's letter with Sunpage asking my uncle to pay up the bill PLUS the fee for getting the lawyer to write the letter for Sunpage.

My brother just told my uncle to ignore them.

If you are so silly and do not know your rights, no one can help you.

Originally posted by monoslayer:

wait for lawyer letter.

$500 is not worth the effort for them to send the lawyer
You can cancel the line and not pay the charges

but just make sure you don't ever go back to them again, coz you will be on blacklist.

My brother is a lawyer, and once my erratic cousin did not pay up the charges to Sunpage for paging services, and they sent a lawyer's letter. My brother basically told my uncle to ignore the letter, coz they won't take him to court due to a few hundred dollars, its not worth the effort and its bad publicity.

I am coming back to the definition of Subsidy

Subsidies usually come with the Govt sacrificing for the people.
1. Tax subsidy entails less collection of taxes, hence loss of revenue
2. Subsidy in the form of cash (or on price controls of basic goods) results in expenses from the Govt

Our Govt's subsidies?
Mostly subsidised on an already well inflated price, thus no subsidy in the 1st place.

Mouth talk only.

Originally posted by baby hunter:

Well said mate!! X2
Think lots of ppl forgotten two important things....after received ERS, GST rebate, PUB rebate, CC rebate...etc
WHAT ARE THE BASIC OBJECTIVE OF HDB?
Is to provide affordable PUBLIC housing under SUBSIDY rate!
to ensure all Singaporean are affordable to have a roof. It is a public service organizasion, NOT a profit making firm!!!!
It shoudn't level their new flat selling price according to what is happening in the resales market!
WHAT IS HDB FLATS?
its is a PUBLIC HOUSING!!!! NOT A PTE PROPERTY!!!!
we're not owning the house! only own the lease.....
& it is not for speculate or making tons of money from the resales market!!
That's the reason they implementing resales tax at 25%?? 20%??
& also limited number of chance we can apply a new flat from HDB.
Since it is just Public housing & under control by HDB, there's no reason for them to affected what had happen in the open market!! & worst! they are comparing the price in the open market & set their new selling price....

hehe if you continue, there are many more conflicts of policies in what the govt does.

1. COE
COE was meant to control the car population. Then they increase the no. of cars (hence lower the COE) and then started allowing people to take 100% car loan so that they can literally drive the car off without paying anything in advance.

COE -> Limit Cars.
Allow 100% loan -> Increase demand for cars.

2. ERP
ERP was started off to control traffic INTO the CBD (probably all our forgetful Singaporeans would have forgotten about this by now). Now ERP is used to charge you in the evenings going OUT of the CBD, hence totally deviating from the original purpose

Originally posted by onlooker123:

HDB flat cost $30K to $50K to build? How did you arrive at that figure?

I'm assuming this figure doesn't include land cost.

Of course, if you think Govt should give out land for free, then should charge only on construction cost.

By the way, you probably fall in the list of normal Singaporeans

Normal Singaporeans => Forgetful, always have loss of memory. Cannot remember what PAP did to them => GO back to voting for them after collecting a miserable $1k from them => Here we go again.

This article fighting the HDB on their so-called subsidy appeared in ST Forum, and HDB was forced to reply to say that the so-called subsidy was Market Subsidy.

If you forgot about the above, then no one can help you. And if you vote PAP again, then don't complain when they milk you dry. You deserve it

Originally posted by Daddy!!:

HDB can be rented out. So resale price would be based on this rental. This rental is influenced by condo's rental. In other words, when condo's price is high, rental is high, HDB's rental in that location is also high. Market mechanism will push the HDB's resale price high according to its rental yield.

Now if HDB were to sell at near the cost price across the board as someone suggests in this forum, then HDB would not be able to purchase the old flats at market's valuation (see above) for renewal (enbloc). In this case, the HDB estates will rot like a dead rat.

Please think before you write.

thank you.

By the way, for those cash-poor, SINGLE-asset rich Singaporeans like me, when prices increase, there is no benefit for you and I, because we don't rent out our flat since we are staying in it.

The only ones who benefit from SINGLE-asset Singaporeans is IRAS (ie our govt). Increase the valuation of our property, and collect more tax.

Everything that happens, the Govt wins.

Originally posted by onlooker123:

HDB flat cost $30K to $50K to build? How did you arrive at that figure?

I'm assuming this figure doesn't include land cost.

Of course, if you think Govt should give out land for free, then should charge only on construction cost.

And why should they include land cost, if HDB takes the land from the govt without paying? If they include land cost into their calculations, then it is NOT land cost, but opportunity costs, since the land was never sold to HDB in the 1st place.

hehe, thanks to people like you who easily believe in them, everything is inflated.

Let me give you a list of highly 'subsidized' things in Singapore (oh man, we are so 'lucky')

1. HDB is highly 'subsidized'
This became a heated argument after someone whacked them in ST Forum displaying what he believed to be the base cost of a HDB flat.
Later on, the HDB admitted that the so-called subsidy is a MARKET subsidy. A MARKET subsidy is NOT a subsidy.
They merely calculated a supposed value that the flat should cost on the open market, and then put a discount on that value.

2. University fee is highly 'subsidized'
This is one of my favourites. Whole day, the govt were trumpeting that they were highly subsidizing our school fees. Then we realized that most times, the govt likes to calculate something called Opportunity Costs.

Opportunity Costs, if you would know, is not a cost at all, but is in fact a harping of how much they could have made on the land if they had used it for something else. But to plant such costs into the total costs of our education is, to me, never correct.

In fact, if you look all around, all costs are inflated. Our govt really uses Opportunity Costs to the maximum.

I think they learnt their trade from one industry the most. HOTEL.
Rack rates are always inflated and almost never actually charged on customers.