M4 Carbine Fares Poorly in Dust Test
Military.com | By Christian Lowe | December 18, 2007
The primary weapon carried by most soldiers into battle in Iraq and Afghanistan performed the worst in a recent series of tests designed to see how it stacked up against three other top carbines in sandy environments.

After firing 6,000 rounds through ten M4s in a dust chamber at the Army's Aberdeen test center in Maryland this fall, the weapons experienced a total of 863 minor stoppages and 19 that would have required the armorer to fix the problem. Stacked up against the M4 during the side-by-side tests were two other weapons popular with special operations forces, including the Heckler and Koch 416 and the FN USA Special Operations Combat Assault Rifle, or Mk16.

Another carbine involved in the tests that had been rejected by the Army two years ago, the H&K XM8, came out the winner, with a total of 116 minor stoppages and 11 major ones. The Mk16 experienced a total of 226 stoppages, the 416 had 233.

The Army was quick to point out that even with 863 minor stoppages -- termed "class one" stoppages which require 10 seconds or less to clear and "class two" stoppages which require more than ten seconds to clear -- the M4 functioned well, with over 98 percent of the 60,000 total rounds firing without a problem.

"The M4 carbine is a world-class weapon," said Brig. Gen. Mark Brown, the Army's top equipment buyer, in a Dec. 17 briefing at the Pentagon. Soldiers "have high confidence in that weapon, and that high confidence level is justified, in our view, as a result of all test data and all investigations we have made."

Though Army testers and engineers are still evaluating the data, officials with the Army's Infantry Center based in Fort Benning, Ga., said they planned to issue new requirements for the standard-issue carbine in about 18 months that could include a wholesale replacement of the M4. But the Army has been resistant to replace the M4, which has been in the Army inventory for over 18 years, until there's enough of a performance leap to justify buying a new carbine.

"We know there are some pretty exciting things on the horizon with technology ... so maybe what we do is stick with the M4 for now and let technologies mature enough that we can spin them into a new carbine," said Col. Robert Radcliffe, director of combat development at the Army's Infantry Center. "It's just not ready yet. But it can be ready relatively rapidly."

That's not good enough for some on Capitol Hill who've pushed hard for the so-called "extreme dust test" since last spring. Oklahoma Republican Senator Tom Coburn placed a hold on the nomination of Army Secretary Pete Geren earlier this year to force the Army to take another look at the M4 and its reliability.

In an April 12 letter to the still unconfirmed Geren, Coburn wrote that "considering the long standing reliability and lethality problems with the M16 design, of which the M4 is based, I am afraid that our troops in combat might not have the best weapon." He insisted the Army conduct a side-by-side test to verify his contention that more reliable designs existed and could be fielded soon.

Despite the 98 percent reliability argument now being pushed by the Army, one congressional staffer familiar with the extreme dust tests is skeptical of the service's conclusions.

"This isn't brain surgery -- a rifle needs to do three things: shoot when you pull the trigger, put bullets where you aim them and deliver enough energy to stop what's attacking you," the staffer told Military.com in an email. "If the M4 can't be depended on to shoot then everything else is irrelevant."

The staffer offered a different perspective of how to view the Army's result. If you look at the numbers, he reasoned, the M4's 882 total stoppages averages out to a jam every 68 rounds. There are about 30 rounds per magazine in the M4.

By comparison, the XM8 jammed once every 472 rounds, the Mk16 every 265 rounds and the 416 every 257 rounds. Army officials contend soldiers rarely fire more than 140 rounds in an engagement.

"These results are stunning, and frankly they are significantly more dramatic than most weapons experts expected," the staffer said.

Army officials say the staffer's comparison is "misleading" since the extreme dust test did not represent a typical combat environment and did not include the regular weapons cleaning soldiers typically perform in the field.

So the Army is sticking by the M4 and has recently signed another contract with manufacturer Colt Defense to outfit several more brigade combat teams with the compact weapon. Service officials say feedback from the field on the M4 has been universally positive -- except for some grumbling about the stopping power of its 5.56mm round. And as long as soldiers take the time to clean their weapons properly, even the "extreme" dust testing showed the weapon performed as advertised.

"The force will tell you the weapon system is reliable, they're confident in it, they understand that the key to making that weapon system effective on the battlefield and killing the enemy is a solid maintenance program and, just as important, is a marksmanship program," said Sgt. Maj. Tom Coleman, sergeant major for PEO Soldier and the Natick Soldier Systems Center. "So, you can't start talking about a weapon system without bringing in all the other pieces that come into play."

That's not enough for some who say the technology is out there to field a better, more reliable rifle to troops in contact now.

"It's time to stop making excuses and just conduct a competition for a new weapon," the congressional staffer said.

More U.S. troops using confiscated AK-47 rifles
By ANDREW ENGLAND, Associated Press

Last Updated 11:24 am PDT Sunday, August 24, 2003

Print | E-Mail | Comments (0)

A U.S. Army soldier holds a Kalashnikov rifle in Baqouba, Iraq, on Tuesday, Aug. 19, 2003. Many U.S. soldiers are carrying Kalashnikovs they have confiscated from Iraqis. AP Photo/Sergei Grits

BAQOUBA, Iraq (AP) - An American soldier stands at the side of an Iraqi highway, puts his AK-47 on fully automatic and pulls the trigger.

Within seconds the assault rifle has blasted out 30 rounds. Puffs of dust dance in the air as the bullets smack into the scrubland dirt. Test fire complete.

U.S. troops in Iraq may not have found weapons of mass destruction, but they're certainly getting their hands on the country's stock of Kalashnikovs - and, they say, they need them.

The soldiers based around Baqouba are from an armor battalion, which means they have tanks, Humvees and armored personnel carriers. But they are short on rifles.

A four-man tank crew is issued two M4 assault rifles and four 9mm pistols, relying mostly on the tank's firepower for protection.

But now they are engaged in guerrilla warfare, patrolling narrow roads and goat trails where tanks are less effective. Troops often find themselves dismounting to patrol in smaller vehicles, making rifles essential.

"We just do not have enough rifles to equip all of our soldiers. So in certain circumstances we allow soldiers to have an AK-47. They have to demonstrate some proficiency with the weapon ... demonstrate an ability to use it," said Lt. Col. Mark Young, commander of the 3rd Battalion, 67th Armor Regiment, 4th Infantry Division.

"Normally an armor battalion is fighting from its tanks. Well, we are not fighting from our tanks right now," Young said. "We are certainly capable of performing the missions that we have been assigned, there's no issue with that, but we do find ourselves somewhat challenged."

In Humvees, on tanks - but never openly on base - U.S. soldiers are carrying the Cold War-era weapon, first developed in the Soviet Union but now mass produced around the world.

The AK is favored by many of the world's fighters, from child soldiers in Africa to rebel movements around the world, because it is light, durable and known to jam less frequently.

Now U.S. troops who have picked up AKs on raids or confiscated them at checkpoints are putting the rifles to use - and they like what they see.

Some complain that standard U.S. military M16 and M4 rifles jam too easily in Iraq's dusty environment. Many say the AK has better "knockdown" power and can kill with fewer shots.

"The kind of war we are in now ... you want to be able to stop the enemy quick," said Sgt. 1st Class Tracy S. McCarson of Newport News, Va., an army scout, who carries an AK in his Humvee.

Some troops say the AK is easier to maintain and a better close-quarters weapon. Also, it has "some psychological affect on the enemy when you fire back on them with their own weapons," McCarson said.

Most U.S. soldiers agree the M16 and the M4 - a newer, shorter version of the M16 that has been used by American troops since the 1960s - is better for long distance, precision shooting.

But around Baqouba, troops are finding themselves attacked by assailants hidden deep in date palm groves. Or they are raiding houses, taking on enemies at close-quarters.

Two weeks ago, Sgt. Sam Bailey of Cedar Falls, Iowa, was in a Humvee when a patrol came under rocket-propelled grenade and heavy machine gun fire. It was dark, the road narrow. On one side, there was a mud wall and palms trees, on the other a canal surrounded by tall grass.

Bailey, who couldn't see who was firing, had an AK-47 on his lap and his M4 up front. The choice was simple.

"I put the AK on auto and started spraying," Bailey said.

Some soldiers also say it's easier to get ammo for the AK - they can pick it up on any raid or from any confiscated weapon.

"It's plentiful," said Sgt. Eric Harmon, a tanker who has a full 75-round drum, five 30-round magazines, plus 200-300 rounds in boxes for his AK. He has about 120 rounds for his M16.

Young doesn't carry an AK but has fired one. He's considered banning his troops from carrying AKs, but hasn't yet because "if I take the AK away from some of the soldiers, then they will not have a rifle to carry with them."

Staff Sgt. Michael Perez, a tanker, said he would take anything over his standard issue 9mm pistol when he's out of his tank.

And the AK's durability has impressed him.

"They say you can probably drop this in the water and leave it overnight, pull it out in the morning, put in a magazine and it will work," Perez said.

I think the position of secret crush of Haruhi has already been occupied by Kyon, but you can always try your luck. Just make sure the world doesn't end if things go badly.

I'm insulted that you forgot my kind (slider).

Not your fault though, unlike the previous 3, we prefer to maintain a low profile and observe Suzumiya-san anonymously (we're usually random guy A or girl B in the anime).

Also anonymous P2P under development (not ready for prime time yet... but anyone who knows how to code can volunteer their services to help them further along). Examples:

I2P http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I2p

Tor http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_network

Let's not forget that it was also during Reagan's administration that:

1. The neocons - and many of the architects of the current quagmire in Iraq (Cheney, Rumsfield, Wolfowitz) - came to prominence.

2. Saddam obtained chemical and biological weapon precursors (some even from CDC) because the Americans were trying to hold off Iran.

3. Al Qaeda was founded, out of the well-intentioned supply of armaments and money to the mujahideen fighting the Soviets in Afghanistan

4. The first great Budget Deficit was born.

What kind of small arms fire did the Apaches faced in Iraq? And what roles were they playing there? Since the insurgent forces don't have tanks or APCs, I am guessing the OpFor is using the usual mixture of AK-47s and RPG-7s that is so rampant there.

Also, I have a hunch that Apaches are used for loitering fire support, so it explains why they are vulnerable. Apaches are not designed for that kind of role; they are meant to be specialized tank hunters; to be proactive rather than reactive. The Americans have the AC130 Spectre gunships which can patrol at higher altitudes and hence are less vulnerable to small arms fire.

The next election, WP and SDA should ignore the non-entity known as SDP as far as arranging not to have 3 cornered fights is concerned.

Originally posted by january:

okay. i admit that i was exaggeratting too much when i tok about the 49 days thing. and i was too harsh in using emotive words that trigger strong responses from you guys.

however, it is the truth that human are ignorant in general. they do have some level of reasonings but usually their reasonings are insufficient and incomplete.

biasness and selective opinions is our characterisitcs, hence i would encourage that while you all are entitled to your beliefs dun be too sure of it.

aristotle belief that time is absolute. but he was wrong.
einstein held some fundamental beliefs about particle behavior but he was wrong in some sense found but later scientists.

therefore, we must always check that our beliefs are not biased and fool proof in politics as well as in other aspects of life.

however, introspection is something which peole dunno how to do it.

Aristotle, Newton and Einstein made assumptions about the nature of the world as they know it to be, and were proven to be incorrect in their assumptions. This does not mean that they were ignorant. They simply based their observations on what they knew to be correct at the time. The fact that they dared to put forward a hypothesis to the scientific world to be critiqued is not something to bemoan or to dismiss as ignorance when they are later found out to be errorneous.

True ignorance is to accept the status quo unquestioningly. To live life without curiosity about the world we live in. To accept that we live in a world where the proles should listen to whatever their political masters say as fact. To accept that there should be a ruling class and a class that is to be ruled, and that such an arrangement is the natural order of things.

I agree we should always check and balance our beliefs against fact. And to accept what is fact, and what is merely a presumption. But such checks apply to everyone. Even to you. And me.

Originally posted by basilee93:

ER... the stupit CSJ is in SDP not SDA frankly speaking, they are gone case mabye they should be charged in court and the punnishment............... pack up sand get lost

Sorry, typo

Originally posted by SEETOHIRENE:

Forgave and forget, life is very very short. Hope everyone will move from here.
We must united, the enemy look at us like a prey; ready to attack.

May God continue to bless Singapore.....

We must move on. That is true. But we must remember what could've been, and how things turned out.

Remember this glorious week in Singapore history, since history is always written by the victors, never the underdogs.

Originally posted by ObviousMan:

Too many cooks spoil the broth.
We have LHL trying to project friendly image, LKY inducing people to sue and counter-sue and SM trying to offer "Swiss Standard of Living".

You just watch on, GCT days are numbered.
Maybe Khaw can help to send him overseas to a retirement village!

Too many cooks indeed. The PM doesn't have free rein to run his own campaign but instead is weighed down with baggage from SM and MM. I always thought keeping too many ex-PMs around was a bad idea. Here we see that we actually have 3 PMs trying to run the show.

Of course, GCT will be made the scapegoat. LHL must not be seen to be unfilial. Although the problems of this election was partly LKY's fault (and mainly WKS's blunder). GCT was retrospective enough to see the JG issue as a tatical misstep, and was right to call for the party to ignore it.

As to who is GCT's men and who is LHL's men, it is very simple. Just look at those MPs who retire (commit harakiri) for the post-65ers.

I saw him on the news earlier.... he looks tired. Worried? I don't know.

I know his eye bags are bigger than marbles, that's for sure.

I kind of like GCT. I think he's a capable man, and he relaxed the Pappists' grip on the political scene a little while he was PM. Although just a little.

I hope he doesn't go down with the ship because of the fallout from PP and HG. It was a hopeless proposition to begin with, and it isn't his fault.

I find it comforting that everytime they try to 'fix' the opposition post-election, new ones arrive on the scene the next GE.

Onward and forward, I say.

Originally posted by Blue Dolphin:

Strange WP candidate. Based overseas. Leave country next day after GE. (When did he buy his ticket, this morning through the internet?). Did he not expect to be elected? So when he says vote for me, does it mean "thank you and see you in five years time?" Is he not going to work for the resident of Aljunied GRC in these five years to thank them for their support or was he going on an urgent holiday/back to work?

Seems like some Aljunied GRC residents may not have a full picture of this candidate.

Nobody said opposition candidates can't learn from their unfortunate predecessors.

It's not as if WP was guaranteed the GRC, and going by all the past elections, it is always a good idea to have a plan B if you're the person targetted by the Pappists in the run up to the election.

As with every other GE, the GE is a sideshow to the main event, the lynching of the bogeyman.

Pappists have proved themselves to be too predictable. So much for calls of national unity and moving ahead.

Originally posted by pierre^^:

hmmm

i tink SDA should merge with WP. then have the talents of both. But hor, sad to say except for MP Chiam. i dunno ani other SDA members names. Worker Party more popular

and SDP, pls disband ba. its for ur own good. U are fighting a losing fight. Ur strategy is not working. Singapore dont like to see their mp breaking laws and such. They wan intellengent ppl, who use the law well.

Whats the use of pasting Nkf on ur mouth
it oni give ppl this mentality that u guys are clowns

And lastly its becoz of ur party poor results. We can actually have a chance to get more than 33 percent lor. Todays newspaper saying We gave PM a strong madate coz its better than 97 GE of 65 %.

Beocz of ur Sembawang GRC which is one of the largest GRC in singapore, ur 20+ percentage is a sorry sigh.

Although WP and SDA have a lot in common in their beliefs, I don't think it's a good idea to merge the parties together. Ever heard of the saying don't put all your eggs in one basket?

This is the same logic why LTK is recruiting a lot of potential (and capable) successors to the WP banner: in case anything happens to him, there is redundancy, and the party survives to fight another day (their party structure is full of organizing secretaries... perfect for when any disaster strikes).

This doesn't mean that WP and SDA can't have an informal network and cooperation as to tactics and strategies, which they demonstrated this GE without any 3 cornered fights.

CST should take a leaf from LTK's book and start the hunt for a successor, as well as new candidates for the next GE.

As for CSJ and SDA, its a lost cause. I thought Khaw was pretty weak and ripe for the picking, and they should've let WP's Team A contest that one.

Originally posted by mett:

let's take heart from this election. the opposition have garnered more support than the previous one, showing the growing resentment of the new generation towards the ruling party. who knows, in the next elections, with more dissatisfied youths being able to vote, we might actually see a few surprises. it'd be singapore's loss though if steve chia were to quit politics

New election strategy for 20XX: cut the baby bonus so that no more young guns to challenge their rule.

As Churchill would say, if you're young and you're not liberal, you have no heart.

Originally posted by sbst275:

Because the WP talked abt what ppl wanna hear

Help the new poor and so on

When the new poor is created when ppl themselves dunno how to save and know what's their 'needs' and 'wants'

Okay, the Pappists should follow your strategy next GE.

Don't talk about what people want to hear.

Let them ponder about the meaning of life. Or the intricacies of world peace. Like that sure win election one.

Because we all know deep down they are high-minded intellectuals.

Originally posted by kaobeikaobu:

yeah...and to ppl who need such carrots badly...dun worry, just bear for another 5 years

Upgrading is overhyped. Why not the next GE just announce that anyone who votes Pappist will get a newly built flat?

Upgrading is just prolonging the life of old flats that need to be replaced eventually anyway.

Originally posted by 798:

Thumb Up for Suicide Six! u have proved u have given our PM a hard fight! u lost mainly due to experience n u should be proud of yourself.

The suicide six did more than that. They proved that even people that are wet behind their ears (untested) can deny someone as high in stature as the PM the returns he was looking for.

Looks like AMK doesn't have as much 'Friends of LHL' as he thought it would eh? Maybe because he was too busy fixing the opposition to pay attention to his constituents.

Originally posted by kaobeikaobu:

i was moved to tears too when sm promised the hougang and potong pasir residents that they wld get $80millions facelift...FINALLY....just look at how old the buildings are now....

And, to paraphrase LTK, he will hound GCT to the ends of the earth for the promised $80m everytime he sees him until he gets it.

Originally posted by january:

people like to act smart and give opinions about the elections but how many of us really what is good for us.

humans, and singaporeans, can only make their ends meet in their own life, so for goodness sake, dun act as if commoners know what is right on a national level.

a lot of commoners also like to blame this, blame that but never themselves i find. but at the end of the day, the problem lies in the fact that people themselves are "cannot make it" people.

so at the end of the day, after this election, please spend 49 days, upgrading and improving your own personal character, intelligence and personality first before you talk about biggers things.

human are really pathetic, but it is just our destiny that we are so plain stupid and ignorant.

You said it is our 'destiny' to be stupid and ignorant. That makes you stupid and ignorant too right? Who can after all deny something as powerful as destiny?

We are but sheep destined for the slaughter house. The end is already decided. But we are too distracted by the promise of green pastures to see that yet. By the time we realize what is happening, why we are fatted with feed, it is already too late.

Originally posted by burgerqueen:

So now u are attacking me personally. No wonder the OPP always get sued. So are u saying that all graduates should support the opposition? U pple should just judge on actions instead of trying to find loopholes in every talk and finding ways to counter words.

So typical of Pappists to resort to litigation or threats when they are out-maneuvred by a nimble opponent.

All graduates needn't support the opposition. Neither should they all toe the Pappists' party line. They all have a mind of their own and should all think for themselves rather than let people tell them how to think.

Originally posted by freakass:

Come on people... dont be sore losers... you are the minority... I'm sure many people share your thoughts and feelings about the way PAP runs the government, but they are mature and intelligent enough to know the risks they have to face by voting in the opposition.

I think the situation now is best. There are no extreme cases of opposition parties taking over new areas, and at the same time the PAP has been warned of the rising numbers of opposition voters. This will make them serve us better for the next 5 years becos they woundnt want things to go worse for the next election.

Yah. They'll have 5 years to redraw the GRC lines. Some more redraw no need to inform people one, like with the folks at Chai Chee for example.

Also 5 years to come up with some other new-fangled rules to make it harder for people to contest their vaunted GRCs, so that BG Yeo no need to sweat anymore next time.