Originally posted by jojobeach:

Have you forgotten the saying

" If you love her, let her go. If she comes back to you, she's yours to keep."

Many times, we think there is a greener pasture out there, not knowing we are already standing in one.

Isn't it better to know, there really isn't any better ones after you have ventured out there and found none ?

Once you have realised the field is as green as it can get, wouldn't you learn to appreciate it more and realize how fortunate you are ?

TS's girlfriend is very fortunate to be able to come back to a pasture that is still waiting for her.

We sometimes wants to punish the one who hurt us, but by letting the love one go, arn't we really punishing ourselves ?

That's why I asked TS to think abt it. Can he handle what he'd have to go through/risk to do that? Does he want to? And even if she comes back, will she treasure the chance? Or just use it to further convince herself of TS's weaknesses, enjoy the ride, and then repay TS's love by running off the next chance she gets?

I think only TS can answer that and decide for himself. Sometimes it's easier to cling onto something, than admit defeat and let it go.

Well, yes, only because they're used to it.

The man's traditional place is at work, and nothing much else.. and that's one area where they tend to put extra pressure on themselves to perform. Here's where the frequent validation for the work they produce comes into play - whether in the form of actions (ie a raise) or words (praise). The boss is usually male. Males understands male needs.

If and when a man steps out of his traditional place, I would think that :

1 - he would expect even more recognition for taking such a risk (if he fails, his ego takes a blow)

.. and ..

2 - when it comes to cooking, since you can't quite tell if a person enjoyed their meal unless they said so (if u burped, it could just have been from eating too fast.. if u ate fast, you could just be hungry. etc), the "appropriate" validation would be verbal praise coupled with enthusiasm at the dinner table, which leaves the Chef (capital letter intended) no doubt as to where the family stands regarding his repeated (and successful) heroic ventures into the Unknown Woman's World of the Family Kitchen.

*grins*

Hmm. hope I made at least some sense there.

Well, yes, only because they're used to it.

The man's traditional place is at work, and nothing much else.. and that's one area where they tend to put extra pressure on themselves to perform. Here's where the frequent validation for the work they produce comes into play - whether in the form of actions (ie a raise) or words (praise). The boss is usually male. Males understands male needs.

If and when a man steps out of his traditional place, I would think that :

1 - he would expect even more recognition for taking such a risk (if he fails, his ego takes a blow)

.. and ..

2 - when it comes to cooking, since you can't quite tell if a person enjoyed their meal unless they said so (if u burped, it could just have been from eating too fast.. if u ate fast, you could just be hungry. etc), the "appropriate" validation would therefore be verbal praise coupled with reasonable enthusiasm at the dinner table, which leaves the Chef (capital letter intended) no doubt as to where the family stands regarding his repeated (and successful) heroic ventures into the Unknown Woman's World of the Family Kitchen.

*grins*

Hmm. hope I made at least some sense there.

Yes, I suppose.. you can tell from the way the NETS and Visa/Mastercard machines take longer to dial / get approved

Wow. The new magic number.

Well you know as they say.. there are lies.. damned lies.. and then there are statistics

Originally posted by Sardaukar:

Yup.

I'm heading overseas.No point wasting my breath in my home country where people think I'm a crackpot for caring.

Well done. ..you cannot help people who don't want your help.. but I hope your original, good intentions to help others remains. May you find a worthy cause to work for, and an environment that will bring out the best in you If not in Singapore, contribute elsewhere as a citizen of the world! hehe.

And btw.. I don't think most ppl regard u as a crackpot for caring. I would think most are just scared of getting "infected" with the caring bug. They like their apathy because it keeps them sane in this country.

I think it's no use staying attached to a person who's pretty obviously already on the lookout for a better catch. It's unfortunate she's not being honest with you - maybe she's not even being honest with herself. If she's indecisive, you have to be the decisive one.. the more it drags, the more you'll hurt.

Well, think about it. Even if you can get her to stop the activity (or she stops on her own accord when she cannot find a better "boat" to move to), can you live with the fact that she went shopping around and only came back to you because she realized she couldn't get a newer model for whatever reason? And.. will she still respect you? Will you still respect yourself?

Originally posted by CannyOng:

why don't u shoot him back...

' As a guy,it is yr job to make it interesting! '

I like the way you think

I think love, true love and not limerence, is very passive and stable.

It does not tolerate games, it does not cause intrusive thinking or "love madness", there is no mix of uncertainty and hope, and it does not die in a few weeks to a few years and leave you wondering 'what the hell did I see in him/her'. It involves concern for the other person's welfare and feelings.

Love is the reason a couple stay together happily when they are way past their honeymoon period (i.e. not "in love with" each other, but they "love" each other)

..but that is just, imho.

As to your question, and I'm assuming you're talking about a formal romantic relationship/arrangement, the answer is 'no' - if you are the rare couple that is not bound by society's invisible rules about how love between individuals should be conducted/defined.

I agree with some of Nair's views. But while he might actually have an idea there, it's pretty obvious that a majority of us Singaporeans today are not ready for the "CSJ" way of doing things (aka protests). Most of us are fearful of being associated with these ideas. We'd rather pretend not to share any of his opinions (not that we have none). We fear being associated with Chee, with his "strange" method of doing things, we shut his ideas out, and we ridicule him to distance ourselves from him. "Know your rights, take action" are fast replacing "welfare" as the new dirty words.

However despite their seemingly misguided efforts, I feel that this.. change.. that CSJ and Nair talk of is nothing to be scorned. What I find more scornful is those who shut these figures out before even hearing them out. Especially those who divert from the topic at hand by dishing out personal attacks under the pretext of expressing a fact-based opinion (when obviously there is none). Any idea is an idea worth hearing out.

Singaporeans want change. But we want minimal disruption to our daily lives ($$$). And we want someone else to take care of it for us.

Well. Change can happen, but only through a collective effort. And I'm talking about a movement here (and don't go thinking along the lines of those bus riots). But before we even get there, most of us, as individuals, must already be ready to make a real decision. And to be ready, we need to have the confidence in ourselves, in what we can do, and in our rights. But most of us grew up as sheep, never really believing in ourselves, never knowing our full capabilities, never knowing the options available to us.

When the foot shackles are removed from an elephant that's been chained up all its life but fed relatively well, it does not move, because it does not even realize it can. It has never known a different way of life. It doesn't dare venture out of its comfort zone, nor is it sure it wants to.

We Singaporeans are like that right now. We're free to "move", but we don't even know it.. nor are we sure we want to move. I mean, life chained up was "pretty alright", we didn't go hungry, we didn't have to worry about predators, right? All our lives, we've relied on and allowed our government to tell us our limitations, to "babysit" us.. what do we do when we're not happy? Complain! "Mommy do something!" We are trapped by our own minds. We don't know, don't believe, that things can be done in another way. Yes we are spoilt citizens - but we have been neglected and not allowed to grow. We are like children of a celebrity parent.. overlooked because we are technically spoilt and should be well provided for by our cash-strapped parents. I mean all parents love their kids, right? And all parents know how to take care of their kids, right? Riiiiiight..... so are these "spoilt" celebrity kids not worthy of help and sympathy?

The way I see it, the status quo will remain as long as our people continue to allow ourselves to let "mommy" provide for us as if we were children.. to be bound by our current social limitations.. by our own mindsets.. we can curse and swear at our social limitations and circumstances, but only when we develop our own ideas, unique personas, passions, and educate ourselves on the real options available to us - not just on hearsay - will we become confident enough to make a conscious decision. To tell "mommy" - enough, we are grown up and we want to be treated accordingly.

Right now, we're all confused and apathetic, "let them do what they want, I can't do anything, I don't want to get in trouble". Our young mull with much angst over the depressing prospect of graduating from cram school just to become another money-making robot in a broken dream factory. Our adults are obsessed with fighting off various issues, big and small, that just keep coming. We question, but once a govt official makes a move, we all cower in fear! Nair perceives that the govt is more afraid of us than we are of them. I concur. The fear, the limitations.. we should start to think how much of it is based on fact and how much on fear (superstition).

What LazerLord mentioned below, imho, is pretty much the 1st step to take if real change and real improvement is what we want. Educating yourself. And others. Knowing your rights.

To the reader. Will you continue playing the victim to a select few, creating your own self-fulfilling prophecies by retaining the false belief that we haven't the power to escape our fates?

Or will you educate yourself? And allow yourself to grow?

Originally posted by LazerLordz:

Educate your friends and family members, print out the Constitution and share it in class if you are a GP teacher.

We can't afford to have a nation that doesn't know the rights it is granted.

chokes on tea Is he high on coke?

HD's green tea ice cream still takes my no 1 spot. *grumbles* To think that last night I just dreamt I bought the last 4 pints of that flavour at a supermarket.. dunno what.. "1 for 1 sale"!! -_-"

B&J's Chocolate Therapy is my 2nd fav. Cookie dough gets a tad too saturated sometimes. Totally diabetic and artery-busting.

hmmm.. I overestimated you.

"Buying" meaning you actually intend to "buy into" these girls. Sorry I didn't explain that earlier, I forget to take into account who I'm addressing sometimes.

That statement that all girls who dress provocatively "zao geng" this and that to "tempt customers" - Lol, sure if you're talking about attracting a suitable mate. Note, suitable mate can mean one night stands, flings, or long-term, depending on the girl, but you can't just go out there and grab a scantily-clad girl and expect her to respond like a prostitute (which is what you're suggesting all these scantily clad girls are trying to be like).

For example, if a girl smells and looks good, it doesn't mean that she is trying to invite potential thieves like you... why can't you accept it as a different form of self-expression, and what's wrong with it as long as she carries herself well and doesn't expose the icky bits and underwear?

There's a thick line between gentlemen and creeps, and that's 2 things - self-control and maturity of thought. You might appear to have abit of the former, but the latter...... hmm.

"as a guy"? I can't get turned on by these girls unless I'm lesbian or bi, so... hmm. Bru bru, wrong number?

Originally posted by Seven_Dragon:

Famous Amos sell cookies, right?
They use smell and looks to tempt potential customers, right?
so as a potential customer, u stop and stare and your saliva drop while you look at the cookies hungrily, right?
It's disgusting to have that look and desires, right?
If your itchy hand go steal a cookie, u r wrong, right?

So using your analogy...
These girls are trying to sell their body, right? [wrong]
They zao geng their white panty, showing their boobs, cleavage, backside to tempt potential customers, right? [wrong again]
so as a guy, u stop and stare and your saliva drop while you look at these girls in a horny and perverted way, r u wrong? [debatable]
It's disgusting to have that look and desires, right? [if you do not have these desires, you may be gay]
If your itchy hand go and touch her boobs, backside, white panty or pull down her skirt, u r wrong, right? [you say leh]

So wrong analogy, because you buy cookies but you don't buy these girls... these girls aren't hookers, they are normal folks only...

please try again wrong number

Originally posted by will4:

I cannot understand u how come u keep on getting personal with Atobe?
In almost every thread, when u having discussion, u ended getting personal?

Ummmm.... coz can't win based on fact and logic?

Sigh I feel for u. Some churches really run like cults lah. Recruit members like scoring brownie points to get themselves into heaven..scary. Each church got their different set of beliefs somemore.. all competing with each other, saying they are better than this church and that church. Still, it's a far cry from the time of the "bus-stop Christians"....

I kinda feel sorry for this Jesus dude, somehow get the feeling he wouldn't have wanted it this way.

Originally posted by ndmmxiaomayi:

The ahem church lor. I nearly got conned into it.

First time they bring me go someone's house to have a feel of how such activities are conducted, second time is go church liao.

First time is OK, look look see see, understand the different religions.

Second time is overboard. I think my parents + ancestors will kill me if I really step into one.

Indonesia. Mobile phone. Don't ge kiang call back, sekali it's those chargeable "service"... later get funny charge on ur bill and gotta take time n effort to harass your provider to waive it off for you (low chance of success also).

righto.

U got a point. But methinks $800 per chair would come across as excessive to the average local, regardless of the actual market price for such items/quality. I mean sure it's nothing compared to those Aerons, but when your average "Ah Seng" thinks of $800 a chair, he'll inevitable compare it with his monthly salary... and bam! Angry Ah Seng! (aka accident waiting to happen)

All in all I don't think it's a wise move on their part to publicise the price of those chairs at this time when tensions are so high. PR lah PR!

Originally posted by the Bear:

correct quote..

he's making allegations about attempts to 'hide' the cost and all that

and i'm asking if he knows the costs of chairs at all... because $800 for a chair is pretty standard...

besides, all one needs to do is to google the cost of such chairs.. or just chairs which are of the same types.. i did that and found chairs to be around that price...

sometimes i wonder.. some people just fly off the handle without checking for facts.. and when shown facts, they choose to ignore it and continue with their diatribe...

Still using this but it is a really bad phone. Hangs frequently. Has major problems juggling 2 or more functions at a time. So it's been accorded the lowly rank of "spare" since 22 Oct.



Mainly using the iphone now. Love it, 'cept it lacks quite a few core functions. Received it as a very belated b'day gift from someone close, so.. ah well guess I can't rly complain!



p.s. What's with the double double D's up there? -_- Are those mammoth mammaries even real?

Originally posted by the Bear:

sheesh.. have you actually looked at the price of chairs recently or are you making this lot of statements without even knowing how much chairs costs these days?

Did you like.. quote the wrong chap? lol .. because I don't see how ur comments are relevant to that post? O.o *helpfully* I believe he's referring to public and not personal sensitivities....

Originally posted by the Bear:

sheesh.. have you actually looked at the price of chairs recently or are you making this lot of statements without even knowing how much chairs costs these days?

Did you like.. quote the wrong chap? lol .. because I don't see how ur comments are relevant to that post? O.o *helpfully* I believe he's referring to public and not personal sensitivities over the cost....

Originally posted by goodluck:

she spent 9 years in Pri sch but still never get to graduate.

The girl from Jilin, China, came to Singapore in 2002 to join her 38-year-old mother, starting at primary two.

Madam Chan said: 'Despite her age, she had to go to a lower grade because of her poor command of the English language.

Originally posted by BeautifulBetty:

Come onlah Sweetday, you are a confirm ADS case. You imagined all the problems and then post them just to garner sympathy replies. That feed your ego and makes you feel good.

.........

You're basically pretending. You have a very 'black-heart'. You feed on people's kindness!!!

And there I was wondering if I was alone in thinking if alba actually has a different problem to those she described....

Originally posted by mistyblue:

Are you on drugs ??

Originally posted by LazerLordz:

That's the biggest load of unsubstantiated crap I've ever heard.

Every single point you have raised belongs to the world of myths.

There are Asians in the upper echelons of the Australian government. The Lord Mayor of Melbourne is of HK ancestry.

Singaporeans and Malaysians make up the top income bracket of states like WA and Victoria.

Yeah mate, whole bucket of urban myths

Although, it *is* getting harder by the year to meet the points for PR due to the influx of foreigners. No such thing happening here in Singapore I'm afraid *sighs*

Hah... after coming back from Australia, I started working for a Singapore-based MNC, telecom industry... I guess I was too used to the sort of environment you described, and heck my face is still sore from being slapped with that whole "insubordination" crap. In Singapore it's just "shrug, what to do?" and.. "you can't do anything about it either and you'd better not try".

Do you have alot of ideas and are outspoken? Then you're a "troublemaker". It really confused me. In the end, my boss actually convinced the execs to have me fired for it. *wince* Yah, just that - "insubordination". Long story.

I've learnt my lesson now, of course. I just shut up and play dumb.. I've done some planning and hopefully I'll get the opportunity to bail out of here soon. I can't wait. Mouth very itchy, brain restless. lol. soon, soon! *assures self*

Originally posted by fymk:


That is why in Australia, I do better. I always do something related to my own interests. I argue against conventions regardless of whether it is work or study. I am more for acting on evidence. In Australia, I can actually debate with young fresh medical graduates in clinical matters and they take it into consideration when treating the patient. Even had a registrar agreeing with me a few times. In Singapore, [b]it is called insubordination but in Australia, it is called guiding young doctors as part of the nursing duties.

Out of nursing now, I still debate with my senior officers and they take it into consideration. They call it getting "fresh ideas" in Australia and then I kenna the grand job of writing a proposal. I actually implemented a few proposals I suggested to them and now one whole branch is using the implementation of one proposal. In Singapore, it is still called insubordination.

[/b]