Originally posted by Y_Shun:

As in putting a cap to the amount of money that the owner can invest in the club? Hence the money also includes wages, stadiumm building etc.

I dunno how it will work though.

Investment is always good , is the external debt that worrying.

Investment is more or less self-regulating becos one expects a returns on the their investment, but not Roman Abramovich. I wrote this elsewhere:

It is not sustainable, just look at Chelski.

According to Forbes for 2007, Chelski operating profit is actually -ve USD5m, a club with success in CL(QF, SF & F etc is considered success as no club could possibly win it every year), league and other cups competition and yet make a loss?!?

One possible reason is players' high wages that eroded any profit. I remember there was an article that reported that Chelski has to pay high wages every month.(can someone post that link)

So getting a full squad of star players and paying ridiculous high wages is a financial disaster regardless how successful the club is on the pitch!

2ndly, it was understood that most of those ridiculous high transfer prices for all those star players were actually bankrolled by Roman Abramovich, he probably hold a large number IOUs over the club.

So what if one day he want to cash in those IOUs for whatever reason?

Or he has a plane crash and die, his descendent decided not to pour any more money into the club and want the club to repay all those IOUs?

So can the club repay those IOUs?

I don't think so,not with those high wages and negative profit.

So what Roman Abramovich has done is not "investment" but rather pouring money into a well year in year out with no returns!

Eventually it will stop, what will happen to Chelski then?
 

So there is kind of limit that a club could earn their money no matter how successful they are on the pitch, let's say it won all competition they are in, CL league, FA cup etc etc, so that will max out on gate , TV & prize monies.

Merchandising and sponsership are  a bit more variable but there is also limit to it and less predictable.There is why clubs want to expand their presence in Asia mkt for their merchandising profit.

The best way is to limit the debt a club could incurr say 40% of  the value of the club?But that is kind of difficult to implement, firstly is it illegally in EU laws,local laws etc?

Then 2ndly how the valuation is done, then there are clubs that dun show external debt like in the case of Chelski, I am no expert though.

Originally posted by Trump_Card:

Like putting a cap on transfer fees ?

That dun work, unless all European leagues follow as well.

Then another is the players' salary as well, this another one that could erode the profit.

 

Originally posted by reyes:

as far as i know. arsenal situation si quite different.

The debt is mostly as a result of building the stadium.

the stadium itself as a asset, can be sold to a third party to pay off the debt ( in full/partial).

EPL clubs that could be in trouble will be newcastle, Everton.

 

 

A debt is still a debt , it does not matter how they were incurred.

One thing something is happening over in UK, clubs are selling players for example, Citch wanted to sell Corluka behind the back of Hughes a few week ago , Spammers sold Anton, Toons sold Milner etc all for the same reason I suppose , money crunch.

Perhaps due to the recession, the sales of ST and/or shirt and other merchandise were not selling as good as expected, thus the belt tightening measures.

Edit: His bro Anton, not Rio.

As long as they remain profitable and able to pay those instalments, then they should be ok.

BUT if they start losing money like unable to get into CL football etc, then they are in big trouble, like what happened to Leeds.

Debts(all in USD million as in 2007)

Clubs-------------Value-----------------Debt/Value----------------Debt

ManU-------------1,800-------------------60%---------------------1,080

Arsenal-----------1,200-------------------43%---------------------516

Pool--------------1,050--------------------65%---------------------682.5

Chelsea----------764----------------------0%-----------------------0*

Spurs-------------414----------------------15%---------------------62.1

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/34/biz_soccer08_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

Basically all the big 4 are all heavily in debt, except Chelsea on paper( how much internal debt the the club own to Roman A?)

The way I see it, this season Pool and Arsenal are not as strong as use to be , Arsenal will be in trouble if they lose a few key players,Pool as usual with their inconsistency etc.

And other clubs like Villa, Citeh and pershap Spurs etc are getting better and could possibly knock one of the them for 3rd/4th spot.This season will be interesting.

Reports saying they are offering Berbatov 150k/week!

If that the case, he will jump right in.

More 'dramatic news' regarding Berbatov after the break on SSN.

Spanish TV saying £36m bid being prepared from Real Madrid for him!

Not £28m but in excess of £30m( some said it is a whopping £34m), news report from SSN but whether true or not is another story.

According to Sky Sports News in UK, Man City just bid £34m for Barbatov!

True or not I dunno but this last hrs of transfer window is crazy!!! :)

I was told some time back that Corluka has a photo taken with a Spurs shirt, and now someone has done some investigation on the picture below which is from Spurs website and it is actually taken on 8th Aug!!!

 

http://theshelf.blogspot.com/2008/09/corluka-done-three-weeks-ago.html

As I said yesterday evening that Corluka deal is done as many inside sources have said, make me a bit worried becos he did play for Man City last night but according to my sources , there is no medical becos it was done weeks ago b4 Hughes pull the plug at the last minute.

 

Well now is official:

Corluka deal agreed

We are delighted to announce that we have reached agreement with Manchester City for the transfer of Vedran Corluka to the Club.

The defender, 22, is an international team-mate of Luka Modric and has been capped 24 times by Croatia, playing in every match of the recent European Championships.

Corluka came through the ranks at Dynamo Zagreb and after a season on loan at NK Inter Zapresic, won successive titles with Dynamo in 2006 and 2007.

He left for the Premier League and Manchester City in August 2007, where he featured at right-back, centre-back and in midfield, making 41 appearances in all competitions.

Corluka said: "I am delighted to be here because I am coming to a big club with great players, great ambition and also my best friend [Luka Modric] is here so it is a very happy day for me."

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/corlukadealagreed010908.html

 

 

Spurs is not buying any player via bank loans, as it has plenty of cash!

Anyway I heard the Ashavin deal is completely off.

Latest on Spurs inside info:

 

Corluka done.

Arshavin & Veloso will probably go to the wire 2morrow.

What I heard has already posted up there, but today I heard another conflicting info,Spurs and ManU was not in good term, some members of the Spurs' board rather make a stand against ManU for the way they try to tap Berbatov that they rather sell him to a German club than to ManU, true or not I am not sure.

Anyway most info I gathered was that Spurs and ManU actually agreed on the price as in my previous post, the problem at one stage ManU could only afford £15m atm and therefore agreed to pay off the rest in instalments, so price has been agreed.

But Spurs was still holding out becos there was no new striker coming in then.

Some other rumours was that Barbatov was also in Monaco to settle deal ManU rep there and at same time Spurs rep was also there for Ashavin deal etc.

Official

 

Pavlyuchenko deal agreed

We are delighted to announce that we have reached agreement with Spartak Moscow for the transfer of Roman Pavlyuchenko to the Club.

The striker, 26, has been capped 22 times by Russia and scored nine goals.

Roman hit the headlines in October, 2007 when he scored both goals as Russia beat England 2-1 in European Championship qualifying.

He followed that up with three goals in five games in this summer's finals - including goals against Holland and eventual winners Spain - as Russia reached the semi-finals.

Born in Mostovskoy, Roman started with local club FC Dinamo Stavropol before moving to FC Rotor Volgograd in the top flight in 2000. He switched to Spartak Moscow in 2003 and topped the goalscoring charts in Russia's Premier League in 2006 and 2007.

 

http://www.tottenhamhotspur.com/news/articles/pavlyuchenkodealagreed300808.html

Well Spurs is one of richest club in UK and 12th biggest football club in the world according to Forbes, here the link:

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2008/34/biz_soccer08_Soccer-Team-Valuations_Rank.html

 

My own summary on Spurs on UK alone:

 

Summary for Spurs in UK:

In term of valuation fifth in whole of UK & 12th in the world at USD414m.
1) ManU------------- USD1.8b
2) Arsenal---------- USD1.2b
3) Pool------------- USD1.05b
4) Chelsea---------- USD764m
5) Spurs------------ USD414m

In term of revenue, also fifth in UK and 10th in the world at USD207m.
1) ManU------------- USD394m
2) Chelsea---------- USD382m
3) Arsenal--------- USD329m
4) Pool--------------USD269m
5) Spurs---------- USD207m

Growth in value, 2nd in that list in UK
1) Pool--------------131%
2) Spurs---------- 70%

In term of operating #, 3rd in UK and 6th in the whole world at USD64m.(Even beat Pool,Chelski, Milan , Roma etc at that)
1) ManU------------- USD111m
2) Arsenal--------- USD77m
3) Spurs----------- USD64m

So Spurs w/o CL football and only UEFA cup competition is able achieve healthy revenue as compare to the big 4, but what more impressive is the operating profit which is 3rd in the whole UK after ManU and Arsenal!

But becos both ManU and Arsenal are heavily in debt, they dun have  much to spend on the transfer mkt whereas Spurs has little debt, so in reality it could afford to spend much more than them.

Anyway so far Spurs the net spending for Spurs before this week was actually very low, here a summary so far created by someone else afew weeks ago , (please note that some of the figure are based on news reports and guesstimate rather than official figures) :

 IN
Heurelho Gomes - 7m
Cesar Sanchez - 200k
John Bostock - 2m
Luka Modric - 16.5m
David Bentley - 17m
Giovani dos Santos - 8.6m

TOTAL - £51.3m


OUT
Radek Cerny - contract expired
Paul Robinson - 3.5m
Anthony Gardner - 2.5m
Younes Kaboul - 6m
[Pascal Chimbonda |
Teemu Tainio |
Steed Malbranque] - 17m
Robbie Keane - 20.3m

TOTAL - £49.3m


NET SPEND - £2m

Anyway , having the money and getting the player you want is 2 different thing.

Some want CL football which Spurs is not in it, some clubs demand highly inflated prices for their best player (Ashavin is one example), some players demand high wages which erode the profit( Eto'o) etc.

Spurs started well in the transfer mkt by strengthen the midfield but getting the defence sorted face problems with Dunne and later Corluka, then came  Keane demand for transfer when Pool stepped in with £20m for the 28y.o. and later Berbatov do likewise.

Well, we have to wait whether Spurs could get their targeted players which by then allow Spurs to sell Berbatov(for £28m?).

Here one which should be done by this week,  Roman Pavlyuchenko arrives at Spurs Lodge.

Arsenal is cash strapped due to the new stadium, not whether its is foreign owned or not.

Outlining the harsh realities of life at the Emirates, Wenger said: 'The strategy of the club is to sell every year and to buy less expensive players.

'We manage at Arsenal to maintain all our football ambition, national and European, while having to free up - for 17 more years - an annual surplus of £24m to pay for our stadium.

 

'The club's strategy is to favour the policy of youngsters ahead of stars and to count on the collective quality of our game.'

 

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/sport/article-23510567-details/Manager+Wenger+reveals+his+financial+frustration+at+Arsenal/article.do

So the situation for Arsenal will continue for number of seasons.

Pavlyuchenko is more or less definite & will sign after the medical on this Friday as the terms have being agreed upon.

As for Huntelaar, inside info said is unlikely, but we will never know.

Spurs is looking at a number of other options, Ashavin deal may just come true at the last minute, Zenit is holding up for more money but Levy has placed a last offer on the table and leave it at that, now only waiting for Zenit to accept or deny.

Another striker on the card is South American Falcao, term has being agreed upon and likely to be easier than Ashavin deal.

On the defensive side, Corluka deal is not dead yet,firstly with the player wanted to join Spurs and 2ndly Spurs may threaten to sue Man City about the last minute pulled up.Latest is Man City is going to sign another defender and may let Corluka go.

Veloso is another target,not much info on this though.

As for Berbatov, he is certainly leaving Spurs, the deal is 15 million upfront and 13 over the next two years. There are add-ons, which will be spread across his four year contract. Deal is for around 90,000 a week, but Spurs won't allow a medical or his registration to be released until at least one striker signs.

No, I am not dead yet.You see I know Taichi!

THFC

My inside source has revealed that Spurs has just secured the Russian and can now go ahead with the selling of Berbatov.

He is certainly will be  going but where to is not finalised yet.

 

Inside story I heard was that Spurs players are not happy with his attitude and even a small tiff with Woodgate just a few days ago.

Anyway , Spurs need at another striker to backup Bent so need to buy at least one more striker(Ashavin perhaps and Dos Santos could play as a striker as well.)

Next they need another defensive player, Corluka saga which is not over yet, apparently Spurs has submitted the transfer paper to the FA whereas MCFC has not, & Spurs has lodged a complaint to the FA and awaiting for their ruling. It could even go to court.

Anyway I heard that Spurs signings is not done yet.

So far:

 IN
Heurelho Gomes

Cesar Sanchez
John Bostock
Luka Modric
David Bentley
Giovani dos Santos

OUT
Radek Cerny
Paul Robinson

Anthony Gardner - on loan
Younes Kaboul
Pascal Chimbonda
Teemu Tainio
Steed Malbranque
Robbie Keane

 

It is matter of time that Spurs will overtake Arse, reason is becos of the high debt burden incur for the construction of the Emirates Stadium.

 

IIRC Arse need to pay off 24mil pounds annually for the next 17 years and Wenger could only afford to buy low cost player( young & inexperineced) rather than proven player.

 

And may even have to sell star player of their own just to finance new buying.

 

So if the above remains for next 17 years, then Arse will be either stagnant and eventually slide down the table,whereas Spurs which is the 3rd most profitable club in UK according to Forbes and with little debt will continue to spend big in transfer mkt and could be very well in the top 4 within 2~3 season.

LOL

What goondu statement!!! LOL

If you reclaim southward so that it will not narrow the channel, we too  could also reclaim northward so that it will not narrow the channel!!!

As for SL, MY FM recent interview with press:

You head the technical committee for Malaysia to determine the South Ledge issue. What will you propose?

Actually, my idea is to propose to Singapore to let fishermen from both countries have access to the entire area. That would be the humane thing to do. Indonesian fishermen should also be allowed in as South Ledge is southward looking. This has never been proposed. But of course, I don't mean trawler fishermen. I will visit the area with my Singapore counterpart George Yeo soon.

http://thestar.com.my/news/story.asp?file=/2008/6/1/nation/21422620&sec=nation<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

Wow,suddenly MY became so generous!!!LOL

Do you know why?

That is becos South Ledge is a low tide elevation that does not generate it's own territorial water, EEZ and continental shelves, which means no economical value i.e. just piece of nuisance.

In fact, SG should now issue a statement that disclaim any ownership to SL, let MY has it, and if Indon want to contest it with MY, let them sort it out between themselves. :)

No, 1844 letter does not matter at all.

 

If you read the ICJ judgment , you will know what I mean.

 

5.3.5. Conclusion

117. In the light of the foregoing, the Court concludes that Malaysia has established to the satisfaction of the Court that as of the time when the British started their preparations for the construction of the lighthouse on Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh in 1844, this island was under the sovereignty of the Sultan of Johor.

(pg 36 )

So as in 1844, the judges has already ruled that PB was still under the sovereignty of the Sultan of Johor, the context of that 1844 letter does not matter, after all the judges have already ruled in MY favour.

 

But in pg 49

163. In light of the above, the Court will now consider the conduct of the Parties after the construction of the lighthouse on Pedra Branca/Pulau Batu Puteh to ascertain whether this provides a basis for concluding that sovereignty over the island was passed from Johor to the United Kingdom, Singapore’s predecessor.

 

So what were the conduct of both parties that came into play after 1851 to 1980?

 

Well you could read the whole judgment on it,  basically from 1851 onward, SG has exercised a titre de souverain or "acts consistent with being a Sovereign" on the 3 landmarks especially on Pedra Branca and there was no protest from MY before 1979.

 

And especially MY thru 1953 letters and 11 official maps prior to 1979 had admitted that Padra Branca belongs to SG, which effectively ceded Pedra Branca to SG.

(Read from pg 74 on the final judgment on PB from para 273 to 277.)

 

So in conclusion, if anyone actually read the entire ICJ Judgment, he will not make any stupid comment on the 1844 letter regardless of the content, becos the judges has already ruled that PB was still under the sovereignty of the Sultan of Johor in 1844.

 

The final judgment was based on the conduct of both parties on PB after 1851, which in this case the judges has ruled that MY effectively passed the sovereignty over the island from Johor to Singapore!!!

http://www.alert5.com/gallery/2008-Black-Knights-NDP-1

Today's first NDP rehearsal pixs.