Originally posted by Daisuke-kun:

lucky i not man yet

still boy.

Hahaha! Funny sia!

IMHO, it is not the blatant criticism of SG guys "gentlemenliness" (if there is such a term) that has got the blood pumping, but it is the comparisons between local guys and Ang Moh guys.

Why? Perhaps it's because the average Ang Moh guy represents ideals and cultures that we'd love to adhere to. And maybe we're just envious of all the attention that they can get, sometimes with a literal snap of their fingers.

Go to any clubs that have Ang Mohs as an integral part of their patronage and you'll see. If you're an Ang Moh, average looking and of suitable age, you'll got more stares (from both genders) than our local equivalent. I used to work at a club. I know.

You'd be surprised at the number of ways that our local girls have to attract an Ang Moh's attention.

I'm not being racially-biased here, I've got quite a few good ang moh friends.

I've got nothing against them, or any other ethnicities.

Though I do have beef against generalism (i.e. aiyoh, all guys like dat lah..) and discrimination (i.e. local guys not good lah, french guys best)

But, if you use the terms favouritism and preference, then I can't say much.

Aaahh.. the liabilities of language.

Sometimes, you just can't seem to find the words to put your thoughts across.

Other times,  it seems that a person is wrong, but can't be proven wrong, as he is right on a technicality.

Anyway, thanks all for the brain juice. Hear, hear!

Cheers!

 

What's with all this fuss about men being gentlemenly all of a sudden?

Quite a few men that I know would hold the door open not only for ladies, but even for other chaps. They'd give up their seats for pregnant women, oldfolk, tired-looking women. They seem quite gracious to me.

Ever seen the movie "A Few Good Men"?

It's true about good men. There's just a few.

Though, IMHO, i feel that the same applies for women too.

I've met my share of "bad guys" too, but again, why this fixation on guys?

What about the womenfolk?

Talk about equal rights. When men do it, its wrong, but when women do it, it's okay?

Only guys should open doors for girls. Only guys should give up the seats for needy people. Only guys should go to NS.

Guys should suffer, cos they're guys, issit?

Wow.

No wonder quite a few guys give up.

Being guys that is.

Why don't people complain when it's a girl that doesn't give up her courtesy seat for an old lady. Why doesn't she get dirty stares?

Kind of puts stuff into different perspective.

I'm not trying to be condenscending here.

Just trying to give a different view, different take on this.

One reason why it's hard to be a guy in SG is this:

We want to live up to western ideals, but at the same time, keep our asian values at heart.

Sometimes this is viable. Other times... Not really. Actually, it's very conflicting.

Now, when men get into a clinch like this, it is often a much discussed and publicised topic.

What about womenfolk? I think that would be an interesting matter to discuss.

Sorry, some typos here and there. In the title, it should be

Systema, Krav Maga and "Guided Chaos". Singapore version.

Greetings, mates.

I'm a practitioner of an inherited art (mainly a derivative of Silat and Kung Fu developed by my pirate ancestors) and a novice at scientific boxing. I'm deeply interested in Systema, Krav Maga and "Guided Chaos".

It seems to me that while most martial arts are birthed in Asia, it is in the West where it is refined to not an art, but as a practical tool that actually works when applied in real life situations.

It is my belief that many instructors who teach martial arts there only view "martial arts" as "a way of defending oneself against another".

To me, it is clear that they have never been whacked by 6 people while walking out of a club, or getting robbed by 3 armed people in a back alley. Also, there are just certain techniques that a smaller built person has not much power to execute effectively, or a bigger built person has not the flexibility to perform.

From my experiences both in and out of the ring, outside discotheques being hit by 6 just-out-of-prison guys, in a foreign country being mugged at knifepoint and numerous brawls in and out of the country, it seemed to me at one point in time that either I was not learning enough, or, that I was learning all the wrong things, or that there were just things that I don't know.

After giving it much thought and analysing my fights and other peoples fights, I just thought, "Man, I gotta break loose".

So I tried to ignore (yes, ignore, but not forget) everything I ever learned, forgo all the traditions, say @$% to all the rules laid down in martial arts and see what techniques and moves could survive facing the real world in a real fight.

I mean, traditional arts like karate, aikido, ninjutsu are all good and well, but there's just so much well.. tradition in it that practicality is sometimes lost. There's no honour in a brawl, right? I'm not saying that they're bad. Good for discipline and all, but try fighting 6 guys whose aim is to do you in. Maybe a black belt can survive, but what if you're not one?

Same goes for sports-based martial arts like kickboxing and taekwondo, even boxing. Too many rules. What's stopping a hooligan from kicking your family jewels? The referee? The "sport" mindset is still there, holding you back from hitting foul areas because that's how you trained yourself to be.

Fighting ability is arguable the product of your knowledge, application of it, and training. If you train yourself to fight in a ring-based situation, in a real-life-situation, that is how you'll fight. If you fight like that and facing me in an elevator, I could pommel you right down.

I definitely won't expect a robber to come up at me, execute a bow and then say, "Prepare yourself to get robbed". Then maybe a sexy girl holding up a signboard catwalks around is and a bell chimes, refferee says "Fight!"

What I came up with (or rather, what I have left) after 4 years of delving into this is something that breaks things down to basics, utilising moves and techniques that are heavily tested and assessed for practicality, devastating effect and realism. Among my students (or tryouts as I refer to them), training involves using the Contact Flow, which we formerly dubbed "Slow-Play fighting". Mainly because it is a form of playfighting (punches and strikes are pulled) and even though it is called slow, it isn't really slow. It's just not fast enough to inflict damage. I've learnt long ago that speed + force = power

Tryouts also train to maintain their safety when beset by multiple opponents (2 to 5 opponents), when attacked in a sitting position (on a chair and on the ground), prone position, flat on the ground, knife attacks and sword/parang attacks and numerous other weapon attacks from various angles, stand-up one-on-one fights, in enclosed/small spaces (elevators and stairs work best) and sneak attacks. We also try to work our way around everyday situations which could possible turn into an attack (e.g. a backpacker w/ heavy pack being besotted, tired person taking the lift home from work being robbed, etc).

One of our methods is called "touch and go". It is similar to Krav Maga's "Bursting" technique, but it does not only involve the hands. Blocking/parrying and striking are done simultaneously with any two limbs, then the follows up with one or many devastating moves, applying the primary action, secondary action rule. Why? Because, it's just not realistic to make someone fall with just one strike. It works wonderfully when you have distance and space to move around, but even in confined spaces, the same rules apply.

 

I've been searching for many arts that could fill just one criteria.

The ability to teach a normal, able bodied person the means to survive a real fight against 5 attackers.

So far, I've only identified Systema, Krav Maga and "Guided Chaos" as the 3 arts which could teach a person that, and NOT require the person to train for long years and be a master or black belt or whatever just to survive the 5 attackers.

The thing is, they're all Western systems. And I do know that the said arts do have a lot of moves similar to karate, kung fu, jujitsu, muay thai, you name it.

So, why don't asians have something like that?

Perhaps we at Singapore could help start one off.

I do know that there are many "masters" around. Maybe we could get together and mesh somethings up and see what we could come up with? That doesn't sound so bad, does it?

I'll bet some of you don't even know that Singapore has it's share of locally made martial arts.

Seni Silat Gayong and prison-originated Blackwood for instance. (Actually, Singapore Prisons has had quite a few arts that originated there)

So what say you guys? Anyone up there wanna take up this once in a lifetime challenge?

To make a Uniquely Singaporean Defence System?

All we need is a place, the people, the time and a structure to adhere to, which is, to create a practical, reality-based defence system for the everyman. And woman, of course.

Can I share something with you guys? I am not trying to patronise you guys or anything, mates but, if it's a good thing, why not share, right?

Around a hundred years ago, my pirate ancestors developed a hybrid form of fighting, a cross of whatever they thought was useful. Silat, kali, kungfu, you name it.

What they came up with relied heavily on the upper body because of the fact that they're always on board ship.

One technique they used, which I find is still applicable today is the use of the elbow joint area not only to strike, but to block and parry as well.

Not just the outside-lower part of the elbow, but the surrounding area on the joint. Kind of like a chicken wing, which is the technique's literal translation from Malay. Using the chicken wing, a strike is blocked and/or redirected/parried upwards or to the outside by opening the "wing" followed by moving into the opponent and striking him down using whatever the hell you feel like doing.

It follows my basic primary action - secondary action rule.
Primary action is the first thing you do to get the job done. Secondary action can be a whole series of whatever you want to do, with the ultimate aim of getting it done.

Maybe you could try the "Chicken Wing" (nope it's not a wrestling move) with some of you friends and give me feedback on it. If you're unclear on how it's done, maybe you could drop me a mail at asfihani.k@gmail.com .

Perhaps we could share thoughts and ideas, or maybe you could clear some of my doubts and theories.

Oh. Another tip: If you're ever beset by a boxing-type guy giving you a flurry or a JKD/Wing Chun type dishing out a straight lead, give the guy an uppercut if you're heavy on honour. If not, just kick his balls. That really works, 'cos at one point, I was the boxing guy.

Originally posted by Devil1976:

Perhaps you would like to start a new topic and thread on this...? Cause by asking this you would probably...

1. Get less response.
2. Make this thread more lengthy with irrelevant discussion with reference to the topic subject..

Yeah~

What he said!!

Iron Rose

An iron rose blooms,
in the midst of a forest so black.
See how it glitters,
Petals so beautiful, they shimmer.
Enthralling. Your hands, you can't hold them back.

You reach out to touch,
unnatural beauty as such,
but a rusty thorn, it doth prick,
your finger, it bleeds and you lick,
Crimson blood away.

Taste of iron, in your mouth it lingers still,
Your finger it throbs, the pain, you still feel.

Iron rose, what a wonder you are.
'Tis a pity, I can only admire you from afar.

-------------------------------------

www.Relationship.Net

We said, and we chatted.
Exchanged thoughts, we related.
But never did we see each other,
Not eyes, face or figure.

The image of you,
only in my mind do I see.
And I wonder,
What do you perceive of me?

More buttons and keys I do press,
To find out more about you.
Give me permission to access,
Your mind's eclectic point of view.

In different places do we live.
Indifferent to the difference between us.
Ignorant of distance,
Idealised by an instance,
Of perfect communication, such as thus,
That could be conceived,
By speech without sound.
Conversation can still be found.

My heart flutters,
attracted to your personality.
But are you really,
what you said you are to me?

-------------------------------------------

(Writer's Note: This soliloquy is open to interpretation. What do you think it's actually about? Please give feedback and comments. Thanks)

The Evil Sorcerer

What is this presence that dwells,
Inside of me and makes me unwell?
Am I infected by a disease?
That comes and goes like the summer breeze?

Left behind, I am forgotten.
Cast away like an apple rotten.
My sickness swells,
I cast my spells,
Upon the ones who made my heart burn.

I am not a victim, this is what I choose.
Am I Evil? I have nothing to lose.
I will believe in the choice that I will make,
Even if it turns out to be a serious mistake.

Anger gnaws at my heart full of hate,
Once, I was untainted, but now with a twist of fate,
Salvation will never be within my reach.
Their blessings and grace I will never beseech.

When they burned I did not cry,
And far away did I fly,
Much have I sacrificed for knowledge and power.

Now I am alone,
Heart turns to cold stone,
No one left to call me, the Evil Sorcerer.

--------------------------------

All works copyright© Asfi Kay

Originally posted by boyish love:

i think next time i may smile at a girl stroker.
girls if you see boyish guy smiling at you, be happy that your femine beauty is appreciated.

Actually, there's a trick to smiling at a girl whom you want to notice you. Don't give a full smile. It'l something like a half-smile, left or right side, depends on which side of your face you think is better. Head tilt down, and to the opposite side of the girl, making your chin point at her. Then do the half-smile.

The eyes also affect the outcome. If you give a girl that half-smile and your eyes are like slits, that'll make you look like a cheekopek. Practice this in front of a mirror. De-frown your eybrows by tilting the inner side of your eyebrows up, and the outer side down. Eyes not that wide, but try to look innocent. Good, now you look stoopid. No lah, it's called "puppy dog eyes".

Then position your head as instructed, and do the half-smile. There you go. It's a charmer, I tell you. It worked for me, not always, but most of the time..

Oh, and it works better if you have a dimple or two.. I should know, I've got one..

Aiyah..

It just means that the girl's not that self confident lah..

Say, you're a guy, right? You're in the MRT, standing cos there aren't enough seats. You notice that a girl (not that pretty, but cute) sitting nearby is looking at you.

What do you do?

The average guy's reaction would be to suck in his stomach, flex his shoulders and maybe stroke his hair backwards or whatever his hairstyle is, making sure his hair is in place and not messy. You know that nothing would come out of it (with the exception that you approach the girl and ask for her number, lah), but still you do it. I do it too.

It's called EGO. Yup, girls have that too, you know... but they don't suck in their stomachs and flex their shoulders. Usually the just stroke their hair, maybe sit up straight, correct their posture, show off their assets. Most girls love to know that they are desirable..

Well, I speak from experience, so if my experience is wrong, do tell me, awrigh?

Originally posted by Devil1976:

COOL... Ya even put a COPYRIGHT on it?

Well, it was published before..

Here's a repost of an article I wrote on the subject of "Life". Hope this helps to give at least some insight...



How's Life?

How's life? A phrase that is used everyday, when you meet an old acquaintance or when you run out of questions to ask. Inquiring as to how people's lives are is commonly confined to people whom you are acquainted with. One doesn't simply go around asking people whom they do not know, "how's life?"

Life is peachy, life is c^@p, life's a b!@ch, life sucks, we've heard them all.

What is the meaning of life? According to Dictionary.com, life is "The property or quality that distinguishes living organisms from dead organisms and inanimate matter, manifested in functions such as metabolism, growth, reproduction, and response to stimuli or adaptation to the environment originating from within the organism." Whatever that means. I myself cannot give an answer to all the queries pertaining to life. All I can offer is a broader perspective on the subject that has been debated and discussed over since the days of yore.

Our lives are run by our wants and our needs. Our level of contentment, our focus in life and our perspective are also main factors.

Needs. We need food, shelter, clothing, all the basic necessities in life, but these basic necessities break down into complex groups and categories that intertwine with our wants.

For example, currently, for our needs, we require money, so we work. Now we have money, but we aren't satisfied, we want more. We want to eat good food everyday, settle in a lush home, wear fashionable clothing. So we work some more.

Enter focus. Some people focus on building their careers or making more money, others focus on their personal lives and family, yet others still will have, well, no focus at all. One thing for sure is that our point of focus will always be shifting from one thing to another. Why? To get what we want.

But I have to ask, do we really need what we want? Can we live without most of the things we strived so hard for? This is where perspective and philosophy comes into play. One's mindset on life substantiates and sets the benchmark of one's level of contentment and satisfaction, which correlates with one's quality of life.

It doesn't really matter if the question of life is answered or not. What matters most is how we live it. If we live our lives without wants, will we be reduced to just another creature on the face of this earth? Sometimes, wanting is a good thing. It can broaden one's intellect and also bring out the best in us. But there are pro's, and there are con's. Excessive wanting can also be one's downfall. The lesson here? Moderation. Life is too short to focus on shortcomings, but it's long enough for us to fulfill our longings.

Ever heard the adage, "Life is a journey, not a destination"? If some thought is to be given to this phrase, it does ring true. Everyday of our lives, we see new things and experience new sensations. Time doesn't stand still. It moves, and so do we. Since space = time, and distance = space, aren't we traveling everyday?

Life is not just a mere "thing". Words don't seem to be able to even describe it. Can anything ever compare to it? Life is intangible. You cannot see it, you cannot hear it, you cannot touch it (all in the literal sense) but you still experience it, by living it.

Back to the question on the meaning of life. I still cannot provide an answer, but all I can say is this. Point your focus on the things in life that really matters, put your wants and needs into proper perspective, and be contented. Your life won't have any meaning, unless you yourself give it some.

So, how's life?

Copyright ©2004 Asfi K

Just sharing my thoughts. people. What do you think about life?

Only the foolish, the weak, and the cowardly commit suicide...

Inability to face what life gives you...

God doesn't give a man, more than what he can bear...

Wah lau eh~ Got free sex one eh? I dunno siah~ Anybody care to teach me the ways to get some?

Girls come cheap issit? Anybody can give me a price estimate? And one more thing. Are they priced per kg? If lykdat I'm better of with small, skinny gals heh heh heh

Best time to do this is on a weekday morning.. Ppl still working, almost nobody in the theatre.. hmm..

Here's some newly written poetry by yours truly....
Have a great read..

[u]Single-Bladed Fan[/u]

Turning
With ferocious speed
Yet unfeeling
Your tenacious attempt
At a forlorn cause
To make a simple breeze
To cool down my brazen heart

--------------------------------------

Miscontrusion..

A crossing
Lined with trees from paradise

I surmise,
That yonder lies,
Greener pastures and fertile earth

Where greed, gluttony, envy and mirth,
Can never take root, spawn and give birth,
To the many misgivings,
And foolish fallacies of Man.
So the bridge I did span.

And once I was there,
My fancies were shattered and broken.
For I now know,
That I was mistaken.

--------------------------------

Vassal

The hand that gives,
Lingering misery.
The heart that grieves,
For sweet mercy.

Eyes that can see so far away,
Yet is blind to that which is near.
It is come.
It is here.

Can you hear?

It beckons.
I reckon.
'Tis a divine place to be.

Oblivion.

Drifting along,
In timeless infinity.
Existence fulfilled,
Ignorant divinity.

--------------------------------

sometimes my poems are self-explanatory, sometimes you have to really read between the lines, but hey, anyway you want to interpret it, that is your choice to make, not mine...

Understanding can only be sought through questioning..

Great poem posted there, but everyone has their own interpretation on "Life".

Here's my take on this aesthetic subject..
Hope you guys like it..

What About Life?

Life is too short,
To focus on shortcomings
But it is long enough,
For us to fulfill our longings

A journey with no destination
An experience with myriad sensations
One need not ask the meaning of life per se
The answer is within us, answered everyday
We eat, we sleep, we breathe
We act, we feel, we live

Some may have more, some may have less
Some have no worries, others are in a mess
All of us are the same in some ways
What is different is how we live our days

When life gives you a challenge, what will you do?
Will you rise up, to answer it true?
Or would you run and hide, cowering in despair?
Or pretend it didn't exist, acting as if you do not care?

What we decide to do
And the choices we make now
Dictates our future
What occurs when and how

Look back on yesterday
For that made us what we are today
Make your choices wisely
For today shapes tomorrow
And what it will be

Copyright ©2004 Asfi Kay

I wrote the following based on experience... Have a great read..

Husband

Pulse racing
Emotionally stirred
Everytime my eyes cast upon your picture
my heart screams, unheard

You moved me
You shaked me
You left me disturbed
Then last night you kissed me
and left without a word

The suitable someone
You compliment me so perfectly
Every word, every instant,
one thing for me, is existent
Sweet epiphany

When I found out
about another
Whom you have kept secret
from me altogether

I asked and queried
but you kept silent
Then one word was uttered
and it was sufficient

To keep me away
for my heart is now broken
You never told me
You had a husband

--------------------------------

I wrote this one when I was feeling oh so philosophical...

Q&A

Be, it was Said
and it Became
The Origin, the Supreme
Power and Knowledge

We Question,
That which will not Answer
But we never answered
the Question that was asked

Life is not a Question
It is the Answer

--------------------------------------------

There was once in my life, when I was so extremely lonely, I took refuge in writing. And this is what I wrote...

Do you remember me?

I am just a-wondering
Where have all the colourful characters
who brightened up my yesterday gone to?
The ones who helped paint my life's picture

Yes, the picture is incomplete
but the people who put the details in it
who make reminiscing the past (be it the day before)
so painfully sweet
nostalgic epiphany

Those who were
once upon a time
I referred to
as my friends

Where are they now?
Do they still remember me?
Do they still know who I am?
Do they know that my life is a sham?

Rain falls at midnight
And ends just before dawn
Cool wind chills my bones
I find my companions gone

Surrounded by strangers
They notice me not
I now walk alone
Unsure if I am distraught

------------------------------------

All poems Copyright ©2004 Asfi Kay

Hmm.. Let me try this..

Pandemonium
Of collosal proportions
Erupt in the confines of
This anguished heart
Into the furnace
Coldly it burns

Verily he was smitten
Entralled by this beauty, but
Rejection was his gift
Set upon him by Fate
Ever the Bestower of Woe

Give me critique!! Please?

Originally posted by the Bear:

chewing gum illegal leh..

Is chewing really that illegal? I thought it was only illegal to chew gum when aboard public transport and in public places. Still can bring in right from M'sia right? or cannot? I dunno.. I'm not the gov'ment~

Here's more....

"Skin"

(Writer's note: This is one of my first attempts at sestinas. Don't know what one is? visit http://www.uni.edu/~gotera/CraftOfPoetry/ to know more. Please give feedback and comments. Hope you like it.)

SKIN

The world has never run out of colour,
But some can only see in black and white.
At the center of it all, the root of the matter,
Lies poor judgement, a lingering plight.
That has plagued humanity, and has long made it suffer,
That time itself can never smite.

Many have wished that they could smite,
This social vexation that has made them suffer.
Heinous remarks accompany their plight,
Sometimes they wonder what is the matter?
Snow falls in winter, a lingering white.
Some of us are reckoned, only by our skin's colour.

-------------------------------------------------------

Crimson Fog

Writer's note: This is a poem that I wrote back when I was in the army. Got my inspiration when I was at Adam Park, and suddenly remembered that that place was once a battle site during WW2 where Allied troops tried to hold off the Japanese invasion. Then the voices just, well, sang to me.. and I sat down, and wrote what I heard..

CRIMSON FOG

Dense and choking,
Obscenely suppressing.
Like a river,
Tears will flow from your eyes.
You know not,
Where your tomorrow lies.

In the midst
Of comrades fallen,
Unmoving you lay,
And question the heavens,
"What is this scarlet cloud that surrounds?"
You gaze, but you are blinded,
By red all around.

What has brought you,
To this blood-coloured agony?
What urged you to step foot,
On this unknown country?
For honour and glory,
Your search for victory,
T'was your choices in life,
That was your fallacy.

As you spiral
Into obscure oblivion,
The will to survive
Suddenly jolts you to delirium.
Faltering, you stand,
Only to see something that mocks,
Your punitive prescence,
In crimson fog.

------------------------------------

Purple Prose

Lines,
Fused together,
To make symbols and characters,
That carry meanings,
Expresses feelings.
Defines the essence of emotions.

Words,
Flow gracefully from the hand,
That writes passionately with the pen,
But has no control whatsoever,
On the world now or forever.
The man, he writes on.

Why do you write, oh writer?
Can it be that fame and fortune,
Is what you are after?
Is that not the want of every man?
To be rich and renowned throughout the land.

Words may or may not, make the world better,
But when it touches the lives of one man and another,
That is my opinion, on what makes writing matter.

So here I continue,
To pit purple prose,
Against aesthetic subjects,
That cause endless rows.

Attempting to justify,
A meager existence,
Answering life's challenge,
Trying to make a difference.

Copyright ©2004 Asfi Kay

Heya dudes and dudettes..

As requested by DeadPoet, 'ere I have posted, some of my works..

Hope my creations and works touch your lives, in any way, even if it's merely providing entertainment. Give me some feedback, or rate my poems, or just plain criticise me, anything so I could improve my writing. I'd appreciate it a lot.

Drunken Love

What is it?
This burning feeling
That comes for a fleeting
Moment, yet it lingers
Still.

The night before
I wished to do have done something more
but it washed over me
Drenched, now I still am.

I hunger, for something
That I cannot comprehend
a mixed sensation
When I clasp your hand

It sparkled in your eyes
In my heart it doth lie
Unspoken truth
threatening to burst forth
A drowning emotion
Drunken love

----------------------------------------

LINGER........

Linger is what I do,
If I am not able to find you.
Never minding the cold or the heat,
Groping in darkness, it is you that I seek.
Even if I find nothing, still I'll be here,
Return to me, here I linger.

Copyright ©2004 Asfi Kay

[/b]

Oooh... Talk about BreastS here...

Do you know...

Men take notice of women's BreastS more often than women themselves..

uh huh, they sure do~~

Drive out Breast Cancer..

Early detection saves BreastS..
saves lives...

http://www.bcf.org.sg/

Easy. Chew gum everyday.. It’s muscle exercise for your cheeks. Really shrpens the look of your cheekbones if you chew gum ard 3 hrs/day for 1 month.

Originally posted by pipi & poot-poot:

Wah...u win alr.....liddat oso can....

If its stuck, use a straw, poke in2 ur dick hole & suck it out.....

If it hurts, stuff panadol down ur dickhole 2 ease d headache in both heads.....

Hahaha!! Damn farny sia~

Now got Panadol, Panadol Extra, Panadol for Periods.. Next thing you know, got Panadol for Dickheads.. relieves the throbbing in your knob...

Uhhh.. I dun get this thread? What ARE we talking about here again?